Problems with ICE shutoff
#41
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
BTW, the EPA rates the LS460 at 27, not 30, for the highway.
#42
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
That can be because of pre-ignition due to high compression and a (too) lean mixture, timing too early (for the fuel octane..), over-heated engine block, carbon deposits, intake mixture too hot due to Super/Turbo, etc. It can also result from "lugging" the engine, having the gearbox in too high a ratio for the conditions and the wheels cannot be turned (fast) enough with the low level of torque conveyed.
Think of it, basically, as striking the top center of the piston with a hammer.
#43
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
Here's a good overview of detonation and pre-ignition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking
#44
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
1. Ford designed their system from scratch. After doing so, they recognized that their design might infringe on some of Toyota's patents. To avoid problems they "licensed" the "technology" from Toyota. I don't believe they used any of Toyota's designs, rather they just got the licensing so that they could use their own designs without risking litigation. They do source some components from the same manufacturers but I don't believe they share many parts in common.
2. As much as I'd like to believe the Hybrid and V6 have comparable acceleration times, they simply do not. The 0-60 numbers I found from some car review sites were:
8.1 secs for the 6 cyl,
8.9 secs for the Hybrid.
9.1 secs for the 4 cyl.
2. As much as I'd like to believe the Hybrid and V6 have comparable acceleration times, they simply do not. The 0-60 numbers I found from some car review sites were:
8.1 secs for the 6 cyl,
8.9 secs for the Hybrid.
9.1 secs for the 4 cyl.
#45
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
1. Ford designed their system from scratch. After doing so, they recognized that their design might infringe on some of Toyota's patents. To avoid problems they "licensed" the "technology" from Toyota. I don't believe they used any of Toyota's designs, rather they just got the licensing so that they could use their own designs without risking litigation. They do source some components from the same manufacturers but I don't believe they share many parts in common.
2. As much as I'd like to believe the Hybrid and V6 have comparable acceleration times, they simply do not. The 0-60 numbers I found from some car review sites were:
8.1 secs for the 6 cyl,
8.9 secs for the Hybrid.
9.1 secs for the 4 cyl.
2. As much as I'd like to believe the Hybrid and V6 have comparable acceleration times, they simply do not. The 0-60 numbers I found from some car review sites were:
8.1 secs for the 6 cyl,
8.9 secs for the Hybrid.
9.1 secs for the 4 cyl.
#46
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
And sorry, I have it on very good authority that the FEH/MMH hybrid drive system, base design, is licensed from Toyota, and not only that, it is my understanding that the FEH uses the same control firmware as the Prius with relatively minor tweaks here and there.
Ford chose to use the Prius hybrid drive design rather than the RX/HL because with those Toyota had decided that since the Prius hybrid design could not be upscaled and still remain fuel efficient they went for HP/torque, 0-60 times.
Luckily Ford did not follow Toyota's "lead" and so the FEH/MMH is quite fuel efficient in comparison to the RX/HL.
My understanding is that Ford could not make the FEH "work" without infringing on a substantial number of the early Toyota patents and rather than license the individual patents "piecemeal" they licensed the entire "package".
.....
Ford chose to use the Prius hybrid drive design rather than the RX/HL because with those Toyota had decided that since the Prius hybrid design could not be upscaled and still remain fuel efficient they went for HP/torque, 0-60 times.
Luckily Ford did not follow Toyota's "lead" and so the FEH/MMH is quite fuel efficient in comparison to the RX/HL.
My understanding is that Ford could not make the FEH "work" without infringing on a substantial number of the early Toyota patents and rather than license the individual patents "piecemeal" they licensed the entire "package".
.....
In addition, the FEH predates the RX400H, so even if they were "technology looting", they wouldn't have had that option anyway.
Stop trying to reduce the hard work of dozens of engineers into a case of copycat; what'd they ever do to you?
#47
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
GaryG
#48
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
"..In addition, the FEH predates the RX400h...."
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the RX400h was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial RXh design was to address FE in the same way the Prius has but the original Prius design could not be upscaled to meet Lexus' requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Ford at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Toyota engineers had put into the design.
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the RX400h was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial RXh design was to address FE in the same way the Prius has but the original Prius design could not be upscaled to meet Lexus' requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Ford at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Toyota engineers had put into the design.
Last edited by wwest; 12-13-2006 at 02:09 PM.
#49
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
"..In addition, the FEH predates the RX400h...."
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the RX400h was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial RXh design was to address FE in the same way the Prius has but the original Prius design could not be upscaled to meet Lexus' requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Ford at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Toyota engineers had put into the design.
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the RX400h was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial RXh design was to address FE in the same way the Prius has but the original Prius design could not be upscaled to meet Lexus' requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Ford at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Toyota engineers had put into the design.
"Rumor on the street is that Escape Hybrid is using the hybrid system out of Toyota’s Prius. This is absolutely false. Ford Motor Company developed and engineered the hybrid system and possesses 100 patents on the design. The Atkinson engine is an adaptation of the 2.3 Liter Duratec I 4 found in Ranger, Escape, and 2005 Focus. The eCVT is manufactured by Aisin AW specifically for Escape.
Of the 351 patents covering the hybrid drivetrain, Ford did feel compelled to pay license fees to Toyota on 21 of them. This was done simply to avoid any patent infringement controversies."
http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/RT2005FordEscapeHybrid.htm
GaryG
#50
Re: Problems with ICE shutoff
"..In addition, the FEH predates the RX400h...."
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the Ford Explorer V6 Hybrid (FEH 2) was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial Ford Explorer Hybrid design was to address FE in the same way the FEH has but the original FEH design could not be upscaled to meet Ford Explorer requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Toyota for the Lexus RX400h at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Ford engineers had put into the design.
Lets all go the the RX400 site and let them know what they got!
GaryG
Only based on market availibility. The market introduction of the Ford Explorer V6 Hybrid (FEH 2) was delayed almost three years from the initially announced product introduction date. It is my understanding that the initial Ford Explorer Hybrid design was to address FE in the same way the FEH has but the original FEH design could not be upscaled to meet Ford Explorer requirements and still pass emissions. So it was willingly licensed to Toyota for the Lexus RX400h at a CHEAP price so as not to waste all the time and effort Ford engineers had put into the design.
Lets all go the the RX400 site and let them know what they got!
GaryG