Hi Nitramjr:

___I was directing my input mainly towards Ford as they have a winner in the Escape HEV but they do not have it quite right is all. Your quote of “Regen” being the real world FE maximizer that Ford says it is is incorrect. Toyota is a lot closer because of their ability to go to ICE-Off immediately upon let off of the accelerator. Dropping from Regen is only a matter of pedal position afterwards just as you are performing an EV or Glide in your Escape after ICE-Off transition while in L as well.

___I can only describe my experiences including driving much of the country in any number of automobiles year round including the Escape HEV locally, through Chicago, across some of Indiana, and most of Michigan to the Experience last weekend. The way to take the Escape HEV to 60 - 70 + mpg in an all city environment is to forgo Regen and max EV/Glide. If you have to use the brakes, grab all the regen you can as it is there for that but for normal slowing, Regen is the lesser answer then a built in FAS and EV/Glide when that works out for a given traffic situation. Anticipation is by far the best equalizer to slowing down without brakes vs. regen and if you have ever used the DWB technique, you will see the same.

___I found it almost too easy to obtain and sustain 60.0 + with the least amount of regen possible in a city like drive with a properly setup Escape HEV. If Ford would let you transition to an ICE-Off Glide or EV without Regen in D like you can with the Prius II, HH, and RXh, vs. a hard regen transition in L to Glide or EV in the Escape HEV, you could receive even more FE as well. The Ranger (EPA 24/29) w/ 31 of 38 tanks in 40 degree F and lesser temps in traffic ranging from nightmarish stop and go through much of Chicago to wide open highway is a testament to ICE-Off time vs. everything else as it does not have any regen capability. If this were not the case, the Ranger would be the superior automobile to the Escape HEV (EPA 36/31) in terms of FE and I can tell you that that is definitely not the case! As of this writing, there are only 2 Escape HEV owners that have breached its lmpg and I can only hope far more to breach its rather paltry lmpg with an L to ICE-Off and EV/Glide afterwards! An ICE-Off glide or EV vs. max regen in L will give you the better of the two results in almost every situation with anticipation leading your hypermiling actions. The crux of the matter is that Ford can offer future Escape HEV owners even more FE without a shift to L and the small amount of Forced Regen before you can transition to Glide/EV.

___If you have never driven a Prius II through a glide cycle, go borrow one and do it. Even in a non-setup one, 75% > then the EPA city is easily obtainable with a 32 - 33 on the low side 37 - 39 on the high side P&G. Hold EV instead of glide to the slower speed and pulse back up leads to even better results but the Escape HEV will not ICE-Off in D until you are traveling way to slow unfortunately

___John sent me a note tonight describing another 60.0 + mpg around town segment with an ICE on time of just 22%. I received an E-Mail a few minutes ago that told me he posted this result in another Escape forum as well. ICE-Off time and Glide/EV vs. all else is the key as I have been promoting since my time behind the windscreen of Krousdb’s Prius II late last August. This is the “Thinking outside the box” Eureka moment and if it is not developed by Ford, Toyota or Honda will steal that much more market share. That is the last thing I want to see happen to my favorite domestic automobile manufacturer!

___L has no negative effect on longevity from everything I have read and have been told from the Ford Engineers last weekend too. The SW is told to max Regen and go ICE-Off at the earliest moment below 41 mph vs. slight regen and ICE-Off at a much slower speed in D is all.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Wayne, not arguing with you at all regarding what could be done to make the Escape a better, more fuel efficient vehicle. But after 13,000+ miles in the two FEH's that I own, I have learned what gets me the max FE for my situation. The tires are kept inflated, I tossed the roofracks and I drive following all the ideas I have read here or come up with myself. I now know what works and what doesn't for the vehicles I own. All the while remembering that when I drive somewhere it is because I have somewhere to go and the point is to get there.

I hope Ford does make improvements to the FEH. Meanwhile, I am "stuck" with the '05 and '06 Escape as they were built. 34-38 mpg is still one hell of a lot better than the 17-19 I was getting in my '04 Escape with the V6.

Bottom line is, L works for me and I am not damaging it according to the Ford Engineers that designed it. That is what matters to me.

Thanks.

 

I have to say, I agree with Wayne, at least as far as my driving situation (mostly rural roads, lots of moderate, steep and shallow hills, one lane each direction, occasional stops, with some small-city driving and a bit of highway) goes. The best thing I could hope for is that the ICE would cut off just at or below 40 mph, without tapping the brakes or shifting to L. That would probably boost my FE more substantially than any other vehicle change I can think of. I know there are times when the car could and should coast, but the "double tap" (or shift to L) will just slow me down too much.

I have never gotten the hang of the "L" thing, I think maybe because my battery is often well-charged (so I get nothing from the added regen except a decrease in speed, which I don't usually need). And often even shifting into L doesn't stop the ICE, I don't know why (engine is warmed up, speed is below 40, but it won't shut off...).

Anyway, Wayne's post makes a lot of sense to me, and resonates with my experience. I'm not saying it's the only "true answer", particularly for those with heavy city driving (I do very well in our small cities, for some reason -the FEH spends a lot of time in EV, and the regen braking seems to keep the battery charged enough that I can coast around at 30-35 mph in EV 90% of the time; I don't really understand why MORE regen (e.g., from use of "L") would be necessary, but then again, I don't live in a big city with traffic jams so I haven't really experienced that kind of driving much).

So, thanks Wayne, and let's hope the Ford engineers are listening!

(I can't wait until we get our Prius after the first of the year, so I can see what this "P&G" is all about!)

 

Its great to have a person like Wayne take so much interest in the FEH and share his knowledge across the Hybrid line.

Sweetbeet, I agree with Wayne also but if you have roads in your area that you can drive in EV (without being a pain to other drivers) max it out. Sounds like you keep a full battery and don't take advantage of it. Maybe you don't care to work for the extra MPG, which is fine also.

Don't know if you have the nav computer to monitor the battery level but you can drive in EV till the ICE kicks on to recharge the battery. When your in EV, use "L" to slow you down or stop when you have to. This will allow you a longer period in EV
saving gas.

Just using EV and the ICE to charge the battery over and over will net you 60+mpg. If you use the "L" to slow or stop while doing this, you will increase that 60+mpg depending how much "L" you use. Your average tank mpg will increase a great deal depending on the normal ICE driving.

I don't use "L" for any other reason but to charge the battery when it needs a charge. I've taken advantage of "L" every chance I get (which is most of the time now) and my present tank is averaging between 46-50mpg with the A/C on recir. This is about a 6 to 11MPG increase for me with the A/C off on the same roads.

It's gotten cooler here in Florida so A/C recir. is not that bad while in EV. I'm not sure how much of an increase in MPG without the A/C because its off already 40% of the time during EV (discharge battery) and ICE (recharge battery). The "L" recharge is the icing on the cake for me.

If I had open roads and no one behind me, I would drop to 40mph in low (ICE off), shift to "D" and coast to a speed above 30mph so I could set the cruise (if no Hills). After the battery drained (about 1.2 miles) and the ICE starts, slowly increase up to 45mph or speed limit till the battery is recharged (about 1.8 miles), then repeat as much as I could.

Just a thought
Gary

 

Yeah, I do what I can to use EV as much as possible. There are mostly hills around here, so I usually use the downhills to pick up speed so I don't have to use high RPMs to get UP the other side. And if there's someone behind me, I try to go no lower than 45 (on a 55 road), out of courtesy (many areas are 'no passing'). Whenever I can, I drive in EV, it's just that I don't t get the chance probably as much as people who live in flatter areas (Rich, I'm so jealous... when I lived in MI, I HATED the flatness, but that was before I discovered mileage mania!). Also, I don't have the nav system, so I'm really just guessing as to what the battery state of charge is at any time (going by whether it's charging or not when braking, whether the ICE cuts back on when going slowly down a hill, etc.). I wish I'd 'sprung' for the nav package, but on the bright side, I will be getting a Prius in January, so then I'll be able to REALLY see what I'm doing.

BTW, my sig doesn't show it, because I had a bunch of low tanks at the start, but I think I'm doin' OK (for a 4WD) lately - averaging 32.7 mpg over the last 13 tanks (4600 miles). I did 200 miles at 36.9, but can't seem to repeat it (not for want of trying!).

 

Hi Nitramjr:

___Please never be content or simply satisfied with what your Escape HEV is achieving as it is capable of so much more …

___And back to my original thoughts. Ford cannot let this one get away to a competitor. They can but it will cost them a huge amount of effort to even attempt to catch up as the following screenshot will show.

High Speed P&G in a non-hybrid ...



___This is exactly why Ford and whoever else manufacturing automobiles have to go ICE-Off w/ an EV/Glide in a hybrid or an IMA-lite for a non-hybrid with a simple BAS system for high speed coast downs. Nobody has this figured out yet but there are a few of us that have received this kind of FE with nothing other then some thinking AND driving outside the box … The above was achieved w/ an aggressive P&G between 45 and 70 mph in a non-hybrid Accord PZEV throughout much of Chicago’s tollway system just this afternoon on my way home from work. E/T is ICE-On and with that, an ICE-On of ~ 30% or less allows outrageous FE from both hybrid’s and non-hybrid’s alike …

___Sweetbeet and Gary G, thank you for both your support and encouragement!

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

 

Gary, thanks for all the good info but I just bought my HEV AWD 2 days ago and I
will preface that I am NOT an engineer (not that theres anything wrong with that..
). Maybe I should not even be allowed on this post since I am so green! Anyway,
I am slowly starting to understand all the acronyms, but give me a real world scenario
for how you are getting such great mileage out of hybrid and non-hybrid vehicle.

I will set the stage so to speak:

Situation 1 - You are going to work in stop and go traffic in your HEV ranging at
top speeds of 40-50 with many lights along the way. Moderate inclines and declines
on the roads. My battery is 75% when I start out. How would your drive (incorporating
L and D and braking) to achieve maximum gas mileage on the way to work. (in this
scenario so far I can not seem to get the battery above 60%)

Situation 2 - You are going on a trip for the weekend and head out on the freeway
early morning with light traffic and top speeds of 55-65 and no lights. Again moderate
inclines and declines (not FL or NE, but VA, NJ, PA). Again how you would incorporate
L, D, and braking.

I think this will help me understand a little better. I think you are saying to
run on electric motor only as much as possible in a hybrid without ICE or regen braking,
but I am not sure. Is the ICE glide the same as letting off the accelerator under
40 and you are just saying it should do that at all speeds? Not sure how that equates
in a non-hybrid.

And if possible could you spell out some acronyms such as ICE (Internal Combustion
Engine). I know this is a pain but you sound like you could really help out us newbies
reading! Sorry for the 'getting back to basics' post. After my education I won't
be such a pain!

Thanks again for all your help.

Dave

 

Thanks Dave, Enjoy Your FEH (Ford Escape Hybrid)

Situation 1 - Sounds like you have the energy screen if you know battery level, good investment.

First of all, using "L" tells the computer to activate the generator when slowing down and shuts off the engine below 40MPH most of the time. The green battery will never go above the bottom of the + so if your there, its full.

When accelerating, I use what I call the "Fake Shift", I try to not let the RPM's go much above 2,000, then let off the accelerator to drop RPM's (not slowing down) like you would shifting gears in a manual four speed. Continue untill I get to the top speed with traffic. Each time you fake a shift, you boost the battery (watch the charge needle).

Inclines - No cruise control, use the fake shift to keep RPM's down. Keep your speed up a little more before the incline. It is not the time to speed up when your on a incline, TO MUCH RPM's = TO MUCH GAS. I try to coast or use EV on inclines whenever posible. Stay in "D".

Declines - Try to keep below 40mph and ICE (internal combustion Engine) off. You can use "L" if your battery needs a charge. Over charge or going over 40mph will start the ICE. Anytime you need to charge the battery, use "L" to slow down at stop lights etc., which will shut down the ICE under 40mph also. Always use "D" to coast down a decline if you need to maintain speed for the next incline. I get a charge with "L" on a decline if I need it and put in back in "D" near the bottom to keep my speed up.

Situation 2 - Trips 55-65mph. I try to draft behind a larger vehicle (Truck) when ever posible. If you draft to close it can be a hazard and tick off the other driver. You would be surprized how far back it still helps your MPG. Reset the mileage screen to get your current MPG and test this. With a good draft I can get 44mpg with the A/C on at 70mph. Important, while drafting you can drop the RPM's below 2,000 at 70mph. Below 65mph, I try to keep my RPM's at 1,800 to 1,500 RPM's without drafting.


Stay in "D" because after 2 miles the battery is full on the highway. Use "L" in traffic jams where you can use EV. I prefer to drive behind trucks all the time myself because of slow accelerations, decrease in speeds on hills and overpasses etc..

As far as the glide, I'm not the expert at all. I coast as much as I can and below 40mph, use the tap of the brakes or "L" to stop the ICE and then back to "D" for the glide.

If anyone disagrees with my opinion here on the above, PLEASE respond with your opinion. I know I have not covered everything so help me out here.

Hope this helps!

Gary

 

Gary that was exactly what I was looking for, thanks for taking the time with that! I used it on the way home and got 31 mph in stop and go traffic, but this is my first tank and still learning. A couple or questions though, it sounds like you actually do better on the highway? Do you always get about 40-44mpg? Do you have the AWD or FWD? And lastly, so you live in a flat area? Anyway, thanks again as you just saved me a bunch of $$ which I will need to pay for all the options I got!

Dave

 

I,m glad we connected on the info.

No, I cannot beat city driving with highway yet. I took to the highway this summer because of the heat and because max a/c in the city would kill me. I could not get an average tank above 35mpg this summer. Drafting is an art and not something that is a sure thing. On weekends there are fewer trucks on the road here, which causes me to drive with traffic without a draft. Do not try to speed up for a truck a half mile away. Slow up untill one comes along if your lucky. Keep the RPM's as low as you can all the time.

This winter when it gets down to the 60% area here in Florida (for a few days) I'll be trying other things. You must change as your conditions change with a hybrid to get the most MPG with A/C and defrost in your case. We all never considered this untill the hybrid brought us to 30mpg and up and $3.00 a gallon. Your life has changed now that you own a hybrid. You are now a changed person like me.

Gary