Oops, that was in response to #16, I missed a few on the way.

Hal

 

Jim, the battery is NOT heavier!!!!! It's much lighter, please read the links!

Larger capacity does not equate to larger weight or size. It can hold more charge or electricity, in a smaller more efficient package.

 

Hi,

A few points:

If we had plug-in hybrids, consider that first, not all electricity is made by burning stuff. We ave hydroelectric and nuclear (with their own issues granted, but green house gas emmissions are not one of them). Also, powerplants that do burn stuff to make electricity do so at a higher efficiency than a portable gas engine in the car.

I was at the Toronto car show last week and came accross this (www.hymotion.com). The plug-in FE was there, but it was late on the last day and the rep was nowere to be found. They have a Lithium Ion Polymer battery.

Cheers

Roch Comeau
Montreal, Canada

 

Canada is blessed with lots of hydroelectric power. Most US electricity is from burning coal. And emissions have not been controlled as they should be. Mercury is a striking example.

 

This HyMotion product sounds very interesting. But of course the cost would come into play. Has anyone checked it out further? Has anyone tried it? Of course the final question is what does it cost. I have sent an inquiry off to them. If i get an answer I will post it.

 

I didn't mean that any particular battery is heavier.

I just don't think that having a better battery (lighter/smaller/higher capacity) will do a whole lot for fuel economy in a hybrid.

 

I gather it will depend on a persons commute cycle.
When I take the kids to school each day (4 miles round trip) I spend enough time warming the thing up that the extra battery power wouldn't likely improve things.

On longer, in city excursions however, where I could use ev 7 times longer (according to the advertising), I figure it would improve my milage markedly.

MM

 

Well, in a long congested in-city trip of stop-and-go, the bigger (capacity) battery won't do anything at all to improve mileage. The current battery is big enough to absorb the regen on stopping and assist with starts and do EV in the short spurts where it is possible.

Yes, you can come up with some relatively rare instances where the bigger battery will help, but I think they are elusive. The ICE will still start when it begins to cool off. And the bigger capacity battery won't be fully charged in most cases unless the ICE is programmed to run longer to charge it. Etc.

Will the bigger battery mean that EV will be possible above 40 mph? I doubt it unless a larger or different traction motor and planetary gearset are included. So the ICE will still start every time you exceed 40 mph. Etc.

 

I gather that much of the focus on the larger batteries are for the plug-in hybrids. Plugging your car in at night charges the extra capacity in the battery so you can theoretically extend the EV capabilities. If your commute were 20 milles for example, you could use the extra juice and reduce the amount of time the ICE is needed. In my opinion, for this to be of any use in a FEH, the electric motor would need to be upgraded to go faster in EV. Currently, Ford has balanced the electric motor and the battery OK, but if you beef one of them up, you should probably beef up the other so they play off each other effectively. I think the Hylander has more EV power, so maybe it would benefit more.

Anyway, I finally pick up my new FEH tomorrow (after 9 weeks of waiting) so I'll have a beter prespective on things soon enough. This site has been great to read in the meantime, thanks!

Cheers,

Roch

 

I have demonstrated on several occasions that in town, I can drive 2 miles off battery followed by 2 miles with ICE on, followed by 2 miles off battery followed by 2 miles with ICE on.

If I had a larger version of the same NiMH battery, I would expect 5 miles off battery, followed by 5 miles from ICE, followed by 5 miles off battery, etc.
Where's the advantage?

However, since I live in hilly country, a larger battery WOULD help me a lot going uphill, and I have more than ample stretches of downhill to recharge without the use of gasoline. In this case, a larger battery would be a huge advantage.

For continuous driving over 40 MPH, a larger battery would have no advantage at all.

I think people ( myself included ) sometimes get excited when driving in EV thinking it is "free" drive time, or if not free, highly efficient drive time. This is easy to believe, but not true. You actually lose energy every time you charge/discharge your battery. Hence, use EV more, lose more.

The truth is, the main purpose of the HV battery is to take over during ICE off times, to keep your fan, brakes, steering, and headlamps on, and to restart the ICE when it's needed again.

The bulk ( like 80% ) of your gasoline savings comes from near zero idle time...
not the miles driven in EV mode!!!
7% of your savings comes from the Atkinson Cycle ICE, and 13% from Regenerative Braking.

A while back, I did a very controlled test. I drove 24 miles in 60 minutes. So average speed with all the stop & go was 24 MPH.
About 4-5 miles were driven in EV mode. The rest of the miles were driven with the ICE running.
My fuel economy was over 60 MPG!
My ICE was "on" for 14 minutes out of 60 minutes!!!

Which was mostly responsible for my 60+ MPG?
The 4 miles the HV batt pushed me in EV mode?
Or the 46 minutes out of an hour the HV batt let my ICE stay off?

Under "normal" city driving, a larger battery would not have helped me at all, since during normal city driving, it is not used to its full capacity as it is!

Ford did a VERY good job finding a "balance" for most poeple's needs.
-John