I don't know that I agree with his rationale behind not believing in Plug-In's. Based on the fact that companies like Hymotion and others are producing plug-in kits now that seem to work, I don't know how he can say that they don't make sense....other than financially due to battery costs. Assuming battery costs come down, I can't see any reason why plug ins don't work for at least 35% of all drivers since something like 55% of all drivers commute less than 15 miles a day. He basically says that for plug-ins you'd need bigger motors. Unless he is claiming that running in EV mode for 25 miles as opposed to 10 miles a day would wear out the motors too quickly I don't get it.

I personally think that plug ins are the perfect in-between step until we come up with a gasoline free energy source. They may not make any sense for people outside of cities, but since most people live and drive in and around cities I don't think his logic holds up.

 

Tim, I've always had concerns about just adding more battery, plug-in or not to the FEH/MMH system. There are limits the electrical cooling, wiring and motors that Hymotion and others don't talk about. What good is buying a plug-in battery system that voids all drivetrain warrantees and you have to spend $8,000 for a new eCVT every 6 months?

If you think Ford is going to open their mouth when you let them off the hook and then you purchase a new eCVT at a big profit, your wrong. Ford is losing money on the sell of hybrids, so they are going to make up for that on parts.

Now, I'm all for an approve charger/generator for charging the existing battery at night or at locations along your route.

GaryG

 

Does 40 below count as very cold?

I would think that once the vehicles warmed up the coolant would regulate the temperature. There is definately some benefit to "heat assist" on the go but even more so on inital warm-up.

I have pondered different ways to warm & keep the battery warm. The best thing I have thought of is actually deigned to keep dogs warm; it is an electric mat that slips beneath their bed and is almost the exact same dimensions as the HV battery. This could be used much the same way us persons in colder climates use block heaters & smaller conventional battery blankets on timers etc. A dual benefit is it will keep your doggie comfy on cold days.

The dog mat, BTW, can be had at Princess Auto stores here in Canada for about $50USD.

 

I agree with Tim here. I think US manufacturers are dragging their feet again, and will lose to Toyota and Honda. Except this time, they wont recover (not like they are currently recovering).

From what I've gathered, the only reason Toyota is not already selling production PHEV is battery, and not because NiMH cant be made larger but they are prevented from making it larger by licensing hoopla (Ovonic battery, Cobasys and Chevron-Texaco - I dont have links by memory, but just search for these). You can be sure that once Li-ion battery comes of age, Toyota is going to chuck NiMH and offer PHEVs right away.

As far as current Ford's hybrid technology, the FEH is more than capable for PHEV, and, IMO, its' much more capable than the current allowable operating mode. If Ford is already losing $ selling the hybrid, I can understand if they dont want to put any more production R&D money into something they cant make a profit from, esp. when they are currently fighting for survival.

But besides production PHEV from Ford, the current FEH/MMH is so PHEV'able, again, IMO, since the high acceleration, high EV 40mph speed are already part of everyday operating mode (if only limited for some reason I'm sure can be compensated for)...a 64KW traction motor is nothing to sneer about.

...anyways, I rant...from what I've learned about the FEH/MMH I'm amazed at the engineering and technology they have put into it. Ford have a winner here, if only they can see that and "Move BOLDly" and beat Toyota to the punch with what they have.

 

Hi Darren

The ideal temp. for the HV battery is 28C (82F) with a desired range of 25C (77F) to 38C (100F). So 40F is almost half the minimum range for ideal conditions. I notice performance issues during cold starts in the 50F's.

The HV battery is an air cooled unit, so I don't think a heating pad will have much of an effect, if not reduce your MPG due to power usage (if the 110V 150W max can even handle it). Near the left (driver) rear cargo area is a access plate to the HV battery filter. Remove it and there is cap that also needs to be remove to slide out the battery filter. This is the only access to the air cooled battery housing from inside the vehicle.

Blocking the outside vent with something would force cabin air to be used if this filter and access panel was removed. Your most likely going to regulate the cabin temp with the heater that uses the engine coolant (no extra energy). As the battery fans come on, they can only pull warm air from the cabin which will keep the battery temp warm enough to maintain near ideal conditions. Also, if the outside vent is plugged, the battery will not be as cold in the AM. I would most likely use an insulating material to block the outside vent.

OCC, it seems the auto manufactures are connected at the hip with Big Oil. Why would the oil companies buy the patents of batteries? Its all about control IMO. Funny how the price of gas drops just before an election! Face it, were not going to be able to buy an EPA rated 80mpg vehicle till the oil runs out. Keep wishing though.

GaryG

 

Gary, if the ideal temperature is 82'F and you are at 40'F this is hardly "half" the temperature, since absolute zero, the coldest temperature possible is -460'F!!!

I know, I'm a wise guy, but that's what I get paid for.


As for battery vent idea, the FEH already does this automatically. I know you knew this... and I'm surprised you forgot! In cold weather, the outside door vent is closed and the battery compartment pulls is ( presumably ) warmer cabin air.
No retrofit required!
-John

 

John, there is no physical air duct connecting the auxiliary climate control system for the HV battery to the cabin. There is a supply and return duct that directs air flow across the cells which Ford has patented. There really is no way to close off the vent to the outside with a door as you state. The air flow mode door actuator allow air to circulate in and out of the battery housing. This appears to be the only "DOOR" in the duct system. There are only two things separating the outside supply vent from the battery housing, which are the filter and the auxiliary evaporator. Therefore the battery has a constant openning to the outside cold or hot temp. This would be like the vent mode in the cabin with no fan speed. In other words, if it's cold outside, you would close the vent to the cabin.

When the battery get hots, the door opens to allow air to circulate at a predetermined temp. The variable speed fans control cooling with outside air, but if the TBCM request further cooling, the PCM answers by activating the compressor. Outside air is still provided by the outside vent, just like normal AC without recir. mode.

In most cases, the inside cabin temp in cool climates is never over 82F, so if the battery starts to get hot, the cabin temp will cool it down with my suggestion before the need for the A/C compressor. You still have the A/C if it gets warmer during the day if needed.

This past summer and winter has taught me the importance of EV and battery condition. John and others, see page 412-03B-11 of volume 2 of the workshop manual for a drawing of the duct, door actuator, and evaporator placement.

GaryG

 

Gary, not to argue, but I don't want you passing bad information on to others.
Related comments are in related colors.

#1. The cooling vent can be 100% closed to outside air or 100% open to outside air. ( via the window slit )

#2. After reading Helms ( again ) it stated that this is an 'AIR BLEND DOOR' and can blend cool outside air with warm inside air. Implying, but not stating that the door has positions other than full open and fullly closed. ( the inside may mean inside the battery compartment )

#3. The cooling vent is 100% closed to the outside world when the vehicle is parked overnight. No cold air would "seep in" and the battery would cool at the same rate as the rest of the interior.

#4. The cooling vent is 100% closed when the vehicle is parked in the hot sun. As sad as it may seem, the door is not powered while parked, and thus the battery compartment has no advantage to vent, and will heat up at the same rate as the interior of the car. ( Windows down would help )

#5. The vent door is BELOW ( towards the battery ) the filter and access panel. Removing this panel ( and filter ) would have no advantage. IF the battery is cold, ( or normal ) this door will be 100% closed, and no air from the filter access door ( and thus interior ) would be allowed to enter. If the battery is hot, then you probably want outside air, and not cabin air to reach the battery pack. Since a car is a mini-greenhouse, outside air will be cooler. And if you are running the cabin A/C, then well, the A/C is going to be available to the battery pack anyway.

I'm 100% positive about #1-5.

#6 Did you know your home computer runs cooler with the case on? In fact, using your computer more than a few minutes with the case off can cause it to overheat and burn-out electronics. This is because the fan only works when the air has a confined space to travel through. No confined space, no air flow ( or very little ). Same may be true here. You are tweeking a carfully thought-out system. Perhaps for the worse.

#7 Maybe the A/C cooling routine can close the vent door?
Cold = door closed, fan off ( stagnant air to warm up battery ) *confirmed
Warm = door open, fan on ( outside air circulates for mild battery cooling ) *confirmed
Medium Hot = door open, A/C active, fan on ( enhanced cooling ) *confirmed
Very Hot = door closed, A/C active. fan in recirc mode ( Maximum cooling ) *maybe?

I don't just read descriptions and jump to conclusions. The above is real world, and field tested.
-John

 

John, really wish you could be stright forward and not play silly games. I don't believe you got that information from the Helms manuals, but if you did, just give us the page as I did. The section in Helms on page 412-03B clearly shows the Air Flow Mode Door Actuator bolted with three screws to the return air duct. It appears there is a door there also, but the drawing does not indicate a door near the filter. The Helms section this is under is "Auxiliary Temperature Blend Door Actuator" for removal and installation. While I was looking for the strange place you came up with that the battery compartment pulls warm cabin air.

John Wrote " As for battery vent idea, the FEH already does this automatically. I know you knew this... and I'm surprised you forgot! In cold weather, the outside door vent is closed and the battery compartment pulls is ( presumably ) warmer cabin air.
No retrofit required!
-John"

Thought I would take a physical look today, and yes, you are correct that a door closes off the outside vent just below the filter. Why wouldn't you just state the facts that a vent door can be seen if you remove the filter? Or even that the Helms drawing does not show the vent door there?

John wrote: "I know, I'm a wise guy, but that's what I get paid for."

Who's paying you to be this wise guy?

At least I can admit your right and I was incorrect about the vent door to the outside.

It does appear the vent door closes tightly and the filter would provide some insulation from the outside cold air untill the TBCM opens the vent door for required cooling. The problem will be for you guys in cold climates using the battery enough to keep the temp warm for peak performance. Maybe that heating blanket idea used like a block heater on top of the battery in the AM with house current should be looked at again. Only trying to help out here, I get my best mileage in the winter here in So. Florida.

GaryG