FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Wheather you read this page from a MAC or a PC, a PDA or a Cell Phone, it's all the same text on the page, even if the formatting is re-arranged.
Wheather you read your car's data from a $100 tool, or a $1000 tool, it is the same data. The car creates the data, not the scan tool.
The scan tool is just a browser, to see what is already there.
In some cases, the "tool" will take data A plus data B and combine them to display a calculated value C. The calculated value cannot be more accurate than the raw data provided by the car.
You should know this. Since you don't, I think I used a proper description earlier. I don't tend to be politically correct, just scientifically correct.
Hope that helps.
Wheather you read your car's data from a $100 tool, or a $1000 tool, it is the same data. The car creates the data, not the scan tool.
The scan tool is just a browser, to see what is already there.
In some cases, the "tool" will take data A plus data B and combine them to display a calculated value C. The calculated value cannot be more accurate than the raw data provided by the car.
You should know this. Since you don't, I think I used a proper description earlier. I don't tend to be politically correct, just scientifically correct.
Hope that helps.
Imported from Detroit
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,051
From: Michigan
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Wheather you read this page from a MAC or a PC, a PDA or a Cell Phone, it's all the same text on the page, even if the formatting is re-arranged.
Wheather you read your car's data from a $100 tool, or a $1000 tool, it is the same data. The car creates the data, not the scan tool.
The scan tool is just a browser, to see what is already there.
In some cases, the "tool" will take data A plus data B and combine them to display a calculated value C. The calculated value cannot be more accurate than the raw data provided by the car.
You should know this. Since you don't, I think I used a proper description earlier. I don't tend to be politically correct, just scientifically correct.
Hope that helps.
Wheather you read your car's data from a $100 tool, or a $1000 tool, it is the same data. The car creates the data, not the scan tool.
The scan tool is just a browser, to see what is already there.
In some cases, the "tool" will take data A plus data B and combine them to display a calculated value C. The calculated value cannot be more accurate than the raw data provided by the car.
You should know this. Since you don't, I think I used a proper description earlier. I don't tend to be politically correct, just scientifically correct.
Hope that helps.
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
One reason: latency.
One device is showing what the data is now.
One device is showing what the data was x seconds ago.
If there is a lot of data on a limited bus, sometimes you don't get the correct data. Like a wrong number if you dial one digit wrong. It's not frequent, but it does occur.
Like I said, throw away outliers, and look at trends.
Is one scanner always different? By how much?
Are you sure they are looking at the same PID? Or is one a derivative?
I don't claim to know everything. ( Just almost.
) However, I take time to make sure I post correct information.
Imported from Detroit
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,051
From: Michigan
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
One reason: latency.
One device is showing what the data is now.
One device is showing what the data was x seconds ago.
If there is a lot of data on a limited bus, sometimes you don't get the correct data. Like a wrong number if you dial one digit wrong. It's not frequent, but it does occur.
Like I said, throw away outliers, and look at trends.
Is one scanner always different? By how much?
Are you sure they are looking at the same PID? Or is one a derivative?
I don't claim to know everything. ( Just almost. ) However, I take time to make sure I post correct information.
One device is showing what the data is now.
One device is showing what the data was x seconds ago.
If there is a lot of data on a limited bus, sometimes you don't get the correct data. Like a wrong number if you dial one digit wrong. It's not frequent, but it does occur.
Like I said, throw away outliers, and look at trends.
Is one scanner always different? By how much?
Are you sure they are looking at the same PID? Or is one a derivative?
I don't claim to know everything. ( Just almost.
) However, I take time to make sure I post correct information.Looking for a value not a graph of data here.
IAT is about as a generic PID as one can find. The SG-II shows anywhere from 8-12F above OAT and my scanner shows 2F above OAT which just what the manual suggests it should be whiling driving.
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
If it makes you feel any better, my IAT is usually 8-12 'F warmer than OAT, with the mean, median, and mode all at 10 degrees.*
So for most people ( yourself excepted ) I'm okay with saying it's 10 degrees warmer under normal driving conditions, and they don't consider that lying or being deceptive.
Sounds like there is an error with your more expensive scanner.
*On a fully warmed up engine.
So for most people ( yourself excepted ) I'm okay with saying it's 10 degrees warmer under normal driving conditions, and they don't consider that lying or being deceptive.
Sounds like there is an error with your more expensive scanner.
*On a fully warmed up engine.
Imported from Detroit
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,051
From: Michigan
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
If it makes you feel any better, my IAT is usually 8-12 'F warmer than OAT, with the mean, median, and mode all at 10 degrees.*
So for most people ( yourself excepted ) I'm okay with saying it's 10 degrees warmer under normal driving conditions, and they don't consider that lying or being deceptive.
Sounds like there is an error with your more expensive scanner.
*On a fully warmed up engine.
So for most people ( yourself excepted ) I'm okay with saying it's 10 degrees warmer under normal driving conditions, and they don't consider that lying or being deceptive.
Sounds like there is an error with your more expensive scanner.
*On a fully warmed up engine.
For anyone following this thread. Here's what the SG-II manual states about the IAT reading. It's also what some choose to ignore.
Temperature of the air going into the engine. At highway speeds, this will typically be a few degrees
higher than the outside air temperature. At idle or low speed, it may be much higher in temperature
than the outside temperature due to the low air-flow into the engine and the high under-hood
temperatures warming it up.
Last edited by wptski; Jan 18, 2010 at 07:47 PM.
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
You got a batch of bad "dope".
Temperature of the air going into the engine. At
highway speeds, this will typically be a few degrees
higher than the outside air temperature. At idle or
low speed, it may be much higher in temperature
than the outside temperature due to the low air-flow
into the engine and the high under-hood
temperatures warming it up.
8-10 degrees is a #%$&@!# few!
Not to mention, it is going to vary from car to car!
Man you are dense!
I was starting to wonder what manual you were reading.
Now, more proof my earlier characterization was correct!
Dumbass...
Temperature of the air going into the engine. At
highway speeds, this will typically be a few degrees
higher than the outside air temperature. At idle or
low speed, it may be much higher in temperature
than the outside temperature due to the low air-flow
into the engine and the high under-hood
temperatures warming it up.
8-10 degrees is a #%$&@!# few!
Not to mention, it is going to vary from car to car!
Man you are dense!
I was starting to wonder what manual you were reading.
Now, more proof my earlier characterization was correct!
Dumbass...
Imported from Detroit
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,051
From: Michigan
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
You got a batch of bad "dope".
Temperature of the air going into the engine. At
highway speeds, this will typically be a few degrees
higher than the outside air temperature. At idle or
low speed, it may be much higher in temperature
than the outside temperature due to the low air-flow
into the engine and the high under-hood
temperatures warming it up.
8-10 degrees is a #%$&@!# few!
Not to mention, it is going to vary from car to car!
Man you are dense!
I was starting to wonder what manual you were reading.
Now, more proof my earlier characterization was correct!
Dumbass...
Temperature of the air going into the engine. At
highway speeds, this will typically be a few degrees
higher than the outside air temperature. At idle or
low speed, it may be much higher in temperature
than the outside temperature due to the low air-flow
into the engine and the high under-hood
temperatures warming it up.
8-10 degrees is a #%$&@!# few!
Not to mention, it is going to vary from car to car!
Man you are dense!
I was starting to wonder what manual you were reading.
Now, more proof my earlier characterization was correct!
Dumbass...
What manual???? I mentioned numerous times, the SG-II manual! Can't you read either?
I won't lower myself to the your level of name calling. I think you need immediate medical help.
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,678
From: Beautiful Pacific NW
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
To illustrate my previous post(s)... Do this exercise ( mentally if you have the ability.... ) otherwise, go out and do it.
Install your own OAT sensor. Put it anywhere on the car you feel is best.
In short order, you will find, it works well some of the time, and works poorly some of the time.
THERE IS NO PLACE TO MOUNT SUCH A SENSOR THAT WORKS WELL UNDER ALL CONDITIONS. So why have one at all that only works some of the time?
The National Weather Service realizes the challenge of measuring outside air temperature, and has created standards to meet the challenge.
A) The thermometer must always be in the shade
B) The thermometer must always be in a white box
C) The box must always have ventilation on all 4 sides.
D) The box must have a double roof
E) The box must be at least 100 feet from pavement of any kind
F) The box must be at least 4x the distance away of the height of any nearby objects (trees, fence )
G) The box access door must face North.
H) The box must be anchored securely enough to prevent vibrations of wind or other
I) The box must not be placed on a steep slope.
J) The box should be 5 feet off the ground.
Now where are you going to mount your OAT probe on your vehicle that will meet those standards???
Change just one, and the NWS will argue you have a "false" reading.
Install your own OAT sensor. Put it anywhere on the car you feel is best.
In short order, you will find, it works well some of the time, and works poorly some of the time.
THERE IS NO PLACE TO MOUNT SUCH A SENSOR THAT WORKS WELL UNDER ALL CONDITIONS. So why have one at all that only works some of the time?
The National Weather Service realizes the challenge of measuring outside air temperature, and has created standards to meet the challenge.
A) The thermometer must always be in the shade
B) The thermometer must always be in a white box
C) The box must always have ventilation on all 4 sides.
D) The box must have a double roof
E) The box must be at least 100 feet from pavement of any kind
F) The box must be at least 4x the distance away of the height of any nearby objects (trees, fence )
G) The box access door must face North.
H) The box must be anchored securely enough to prevent vibrations of wind or other
I) The box must not be placed on a steep slope.
J) The box should be 5 feet off the ground.
Now where are you going to mount your OAT probe on your vehicle that will meet those standards???
Change just one, and the NWS will argue you have a "false" reading.
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,616
From: All over the Central U.S.
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
I infer from that you understand the spirit of this conversation.
(don't let it go to your head)
