Ok, been reading a lot of GaryG's stuff and came across the Neutral advantage stuff. What is interesting to me is that I think there are cases that even in "D" we have a situation where the drive train completely disconnects. What I have noticed is this:

Come to a stop in "D". On a slight incline you will almost always roll backwards if you don't get on the pedal right away. BUT the amount of roll seems to me to be the same as in "N". So I am thinking that we might have situations even when in "D" that we are really disconnected like in "N".

What do you think Gary?

(BTW this is on an 07 MMH)

 

Hi Mike

The reason you know that "D" is connected is because you get regen from the wheels when you let off the gas pedal. If you have the Navi energy screen, you can see this.

The roll back in "D" on an incline is part of the "Creep Mode" designed to simulate a standard automatic at a stop. This is decussed in the Ford patent at great link, but I would have to find it again. Trust me, because of regen, there is a 38% reduction in distance rolling in "D" to a stop from 40mph than "N". Those test results were posted here over a year ago in a Technical Data thread I started.

GaryG

 

Trust ME... ( or not, I really have nothing to gain either way ) Cutting out regen is the only thing N does, and there are many, many cases / conditions when all regen is cut in the Drive setting also.

Next time you have a good hill, try pressing the accelerator pedal just 1mm or 2mm... not enough to accelerate... but enough to create an electric signal to the computer. All regen will be cut.

I have tried the test in 2 different 2005's, and in one 2006. Always the same result. Neutral is just an easy way to cut regen. The foot pedal is another way, it just takes a bit more practice.

As always, go out and try both ways yourself, and see which works best for you. I use both ways from time to time.

-John

 

Is that the same effect as getting the FEH to Idle with the ICE off showing on the Nav screen. No Regen is operating and there's no drag from any other components? I do that sometimes,when conditions are right and SOC is low,and I know I'm either ending a drive or reaching a part of road where i'm going ICE game on!

 

Umm... not sure what you are asking.

ICE off means there is no orange outline around the picture on the Nav/Energy screen.

ICE on in "idle" with no regen is when the ICE icon has orange around it, but there are no arrows flowing in or out.

 

Some people call this deadbanding, I call it deadbraining in the FEH/MMH. It has the same effect as the Charge/Assist needle staying in the middle when your charging and discharging at the same time.

GaryG

 

OK, deadbraining does or doesn't mimic "N", having as much coasting abillity as possible?

 

It is my opinion, deadbanding is a way of cancelling regen, and a way to stop positive and negative torque to the output shaft. The problem with deadbanding is, there is a constant pushing back and forth between regen and positive torque that must be adjusted at the accelerator pedal. Wind, road variations, steering etc, can compound a perfect balance.

When I did the steady state speed test in this article http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/artic...brid--350.html
I found there was some regen while I was holding the accelerator steady while maintaining speed. It should not matter during the test if I was in "D" or "L" because I was asking for positive torque at the accelerator pedal. The problem was, it did, and I got worst mileage every time in "L", and I saw no regen arrows. Since those test I conducted, I found it all over in the manuals that "D" will give you the best fuel economy. There is still regen going on in "D", but it's better for cruising than "L".

Shifting to neutral removes all regen completely. The output shaft is disengaged from the wheel completely. There is no positive torque from the eCVT. The small generator can still be charging the battery also in "Active Neutral", and you could KEY off the ICE and restart anytime above 6mph. Deadbanding will never give you the results of "N" gliding. I don't waste my time with deadbanding because the FEH/MMH has such a clear advantage in neutral. Because of the design Ford put into the FEH/MMH, you can tow in neatral with all four wheels down up to 75mph safely.

GaryG

 

There were reports from some people that in city driving "L" can get you better mileage. That doesn't contradict your results at all however. For one thing your results are when maintaining speed not stop/go.

I suspect the better mileage has to do mainly with the fact that the ICE shuts down quicker upon deceleration in "L". If one uses the "double-tap" while in "D" to get the ICE to shut down immediately and brakes gently enough that they get full advantage of re-gen... I would guess that the "L" advantage in city driving is largely gone.

 

That's right Tim, it doesn't hurt to drive in "L" if your battery needs a charge. It does hurt your mileage when the battery is near full though. For most people, the regen and constant EV in city driving will improve mileage. I just go those extra steps for long EV driving and short "N" fake shifts to go EV more often. Like I've said before, a low SoC will take a much faster charge to return to EV quicker.

GaryG