A/C In Very Hot Areas
#21
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Originally Posted by Scooters
WOW.... Interesting comments!
I'm going to have to think about our family needs a bit before I make a commitment to the FEH. I really need a small SUV to haul our family "stuff" from time to time. However, most of my travel is commuting 15 miles each way.
For those of you who haven't tried the TCH, I've got to say that the A/C will get you so cold that you are looking for a sweater, even in those 100 degree days. The sytem does run on the electric side of the house. As it relates to A/C, the ICE only comes on when the battery need charging.
Thanks!
I'm going to have to think about our family needs a bit before I make a commitment to the FEH. I really need a small SUV to haul our family "stuff" from time to time. However, most of my travel is commuting 15 miles each way.
For those of you who haven't tried the TCH, I've got to say that the A/C will get you so cold that you are looking for a sweater, even in those 100 degree days. The sytem does run on the electric side of the house. As it relates to A/C, the ICE only comes on when the battery need charging.
Thanks!
Its completely under my control and I find I rarely have to pop on that max A/C.
#22
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
It is true that all the energy used comes from the ICE, however, I think that an electric A/C could actually be more efficient (as opposed to ICE-driven Mac A/C) in terms of MPG.
The battery gets charged while the ICE is running and by braking. Now if the A/C could stay on while the ICE shuts off when it isn't needed - eliminating the need to run the ICE solely for A/C (very wasteful...gas burned for no miles gained) - this shift would still allow higher overall efficiency by using the stored energy in a situation where the ICE isn't needed.
I think it's similar to driving in EV mode, shifting traction to electric at slow speeds (where the ICE is less efficient) and leaving the ICE off so as not to waste gas, is a better overall option.
It's the shift/blend of electric and ICE power that makes hybrids what they are... that's why a hybrid can achieve much higher MPG compared to a conventional vehicle, even though both vehicles derive all their power from the ICE.
Of course, it depends on the type of driving you do and your A/C usage. Electric A/C might be more fuel-efficient for some and worse for others.
The battery gets charged while the ICE is running and by braking. Now if the A/C could stay on while the ICE shuts off when it isn't needed - eliminating the need to run the ICE solely for A/C (very wasteful...gas burned for no miles gained) - this shift would still allow higher overall efficiency by using the stored energy in a situation where the ICE isn't needed.
I think it's similar to driving in EV mode, shifting traction to electric at slow speeds (where the ICE is less efficient) and leaving the ICE off so as not to waste gas, is a better overall option.
It's the shift/blend of electric and ICE power that makes hybrids what they are... that's why a hybrid can achieve much higher MPG compared to a conventional vehicle, even though both vehicles derive all their power from the ICE.
Of course, it depends on the type of driving you do and your A/C usage. Electric A/C might be more fuel-efficient for some and worse for others.
Last edited by randykato; 07-26-2006 at 11:18 AM.
#23
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
I'd be real interested to know what size the electric motor is that drives the a/c compressor in the Camry. Any experts out there know what kind of horsepower it takes to run a car a/c? I know it is a significant amount since you can feel the difference when the compressor kicks in on any car (you can see it in the mpg too). What about Camry owners - what kind of difference do you get in your EV mode when you are using a/c versus when you are not?
#24
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Originally Posted by nitramjr
What about Camry owners - what kind of difference do you get in your EV mode when you are using a/c versus when you are not?
If the car is parked in the shade, I honestly think the mpg hit is under 1mpg for the A/C running in ECO mode. Now if I park in the sun, I notice a big hit - a good 2 or 3mpg drop is my estimate. It takes a lot of energy to remove all that absorbed solar heat, and while the A/C blows cold, it takes time to cool down.
I'm curious too about the compressor sizing and power managment. I can't tell if it cycles like a belt driven compressor or just 'throttles back' and uses less power to regulate the temperature.
#25
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Nash, since you have both types of vehicles - which a/c system do you prefer? Which seems to effect gas mileage the least? Do you see any drawbacks to one over the other?
Wat about impact on performance?
Thanks
Wat about impact on performance?
Thanks
#26
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Originally Posted by nitramjr
Nash, since you have both types of vehicles - which a/c system do you prefer? Which seems to effect gas mileage the least? Do you see any drawbacks to one over the other?
Wat about impact on performance?
Wat about impact on performance?
I suspect the belt driven A/C compressor on the FEH will not last as long as the electric A/C TCH compressor. The belt driven compressor has both a clutch and shaft seal that wear out. The TCH compressor appears to be a sealed unit, with no shaft seal or clutch to wear out.
Edit: I have FormulaOne Pinnacle 35% tint all the way around (not the windshield!) as the first thing I noticed was how much heat came in the TCH rear window. The tinting dramatically reduces the heat and improves the A/C comfort.
Last edited by nash; 07-26-2006 at 01:59 PM. Reason: comment about window tinting
#27
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Originally Posted by nash
I suspect the belt driven A/C compressor on the FEH will not last as long as the electric A/C TCH compressor. The belt driven compressor has both a clutch and shaft seal that wear out. The TCH compressor appears to be a sealed unit, with no shaft seal or clutch to wear out.
With a ICE driven compressor, you have that electromechanical clutch to deal with. Plus, an ICE driven compressor has to be "over designed" with not under compressing the FREON at low ICE RPM's, while not over compressing the FREON at high ICE RPM's.
The electric driven compressor doesn't have the clutch, and runs at a fixed, known, RPM. A much more simple and, I would venture a guess, more efficient design.
Last edited by WaltPA; 07-26-2006 at 02:31 PM.
#28
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
Since I'm not unhappy with the way it works in the Escape, I won't quite say I wish it had electric a/c but I am starting to be a believer that it may be better.
We are allowed to change our mind around here, right?
We are allowed to change our mind around here, right?
#29
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
So on the TCH, is the A/C for the EV battery run off the same electric compressor as the cabin air? I assume it would be.
One appeal of the electric A/C is the ability to run the air without the ICE when the car is parked. Many times at work during lunch hour I see people sitting in their vehicles, engine running, A/C on, reading, napping, or talking on the cell phone. That's something I personally wouldn't do, but with electric A/C it seems somehow less wasteful than idling the engine for an hour. I wonder how long the electric A/C can run on a full battery?
Don
One appeal of the electric A/C is the ability to run the air without the ICE when the car is parked. Many times at work during lunch hour I see people sitting in their vehicles, engine running, A/C on, reading, napping, or talking on the cell phone. That's something I personally wouldn't do, but with electric A/C it seems somehow less wasteful than idling the engine for an hour. I wonder how long the electric A/C can run on a full battery?
Don
#30
Re: A/C In Very Hot Areas
I need to investigate the TCH battery life when running theA/C only. We've only had our car 2 weeks. The ICE turns on and off frequently as needed. It is fairly quiet. You can be sitting at idle (with the radio on) and not really know what you are running on unless you look at the monitor.