Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
#1
07-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I've owned a 2008 front wheel drive FEH for a while now. I try to rotate my own tires, but I've always been worried I'm not putting the jack stands in the right places. Can anyone tell me where are the best locations to put the 4 jack stands so I can raise all 4 wheels to do the rotation?
In the back, I usually place the jack in the center of the suspension arms (center of the car). So when I jack the rear up, both wheels are raised and I can put a jack stand under each side. Is there a center spot like that in the front where I can jack up both sides?
Thanks guys!
In the back, I usually place the jack in the center of the suspension arms (center of the car). So when I jack the rear up, both wheels are raised and I can put a jack stand under each side. Is there a center spot like that in the front where I can jack up both sides?
Thanks guys!
#2
07-17-2011, 09:51 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
There's really not a good center front jacking point. There is the front cross member but I never used it for fear of bending it. I jacked from the factory lift points and placed a stand under the front lower control arm using a scrap of 2X4 between the vehicle and the stand.
This thread has pics and info.
http://www.escape-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1814
This thread has pics and info.
http://www.escape-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1814
#3
07-17-2011, 10:22 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I've owned a 2008 front wheel drive FEH for a while now. I try to rotate my own tires, but I've always been worried I'm not putting the jack stands in the right places. Can anyone tell me where are the best locations to put the 4 jack stands so I can raise all 4 wheels to do the rotation?
In the back, I usually place the jack in the center of the suspension arms (center of the car). So when I jack the rear up, both wheels are raised and I can put a jack stand under each side. Is there a center spot like that in the front where I can jack up both sides?
Thanks guys!
In the back, I usually place the jack in the center of the suspension arms (center of the car). So when I jack the rear up, both wheels are raised and I can put a jack stand under each side. Is there a center spot like that in the front where I can jack up both sides?
Thanks guys!
In my opinion, it's just not safe to jack up a vehicle in this manor using 4 jack stands at once. The risk of damage and injury as well as the time and effort make taking it to a garage and having it done a better choice for me.
You may want to consider what I have and just not rotate the tires at all. The front tires wear faster in most conditions, so I let them wear out on the front and replace just two tires at a time. If there is a problem with tire wear, the tire has always been in that location and so the problem with the front end or rear end can be identified and repaired sooner. Rotating the tires may hide a problem and destroy more of your tires before you find you have a problem.
I use to rotate and balance my tires and pay for the lifetime deal, but not anymore. I pay for the bare required balancing once when I buy the tires and keep them at or above max sidewall psi so they last the longest and handle the safest. I only spend money on tires when I replace them now. I take all the money I've saved changing the tires around and buy the best light weight Low Roll Resistant handling tires I can find and keep them in the same location for the reasons above.
GaryG
#4
07-17-2011, 10:35 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
Thanks for the replies so far. Jerry&Natalie, good pictures and link to the other site. I'll check out those points the next time I go under the car. Interesting philosophy Gary, I know what you mean about raising the car up on 4 jacks. I was concerned about safety too. I don't want the car to tip over and drop off the jack. I thought there would be a safe way to do it so that doesn't happen. If anyone does this often, please chime in.
Gary, when you follow your no-rotation method, what is the average mileage between new tires for your car? I'm on 44,000 miles on my factory set, and they still look almost new. I don't foresee buying new tires until at least 70,000. I don't inflate them to max sidewall spec (44psi)...I go about 38-40 psi. I'm concerned that at max sidewall spec, the contact patch is too small and "road grip" is reduced. I know this is not a tire inflation thread, so I won't go any further. Your comment about safe handling just piqued my curiosity.
Thanks!
Gary, when you follow your no-rotation method, what is the average mileage between new tires for your car? I'm on 44,000 miles on my factory set, and they still look almost new. I don't foresee buying new tires until at least 70,000. I don't inflate them to max sidewall spec (44psi)...I go about 38-40 psi. I'm concerned that at max sidewall spec, the contact patch is too small and "road grip" is reduced. I know this is not a tire inflation thread, so I won't go any further. Your comment about safe handling just piqued my curiosity.
Thanks!
#5
07-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
You may want to consider evaluating this article because I have personally found it to be true with my tires.
I changed out my rear Eco-Plus tires on my '05 FEH at 70,000 miles because of noise, but they still had tread for another 10,000 miles. The front tire had to be replaced at 50,000 miles because of damage, so I replaced both fronts with 2 new Michelin Latitude Tours tires that come on the newer Escapes. I used the other front tire as a full size spare.
Any time you put tires on the front, they wear faster. If you rotate, those tires on the front will wear faster. The higher pressure helps prevent the sides from wearing out sooner on the front, but the front take a harder beating and still wear faster than the rear.
Maximum Tire pressure (a police perspective)We've talked here before about max cold tire inflation pressure.
I changed out my rear Eco-Plus tires on my '05 FEH at 70,000 miles because of noise, but they still had tread for another 10,000 miles. The front tire had to be replaced at 50,000 miles because of damage, so I replaced both fronts with 2 new Michelin Latitude Tours tires that come on the newer Escapes. I used the other front tire as a full size spare.
Any time you put tires on the front, they wear faster. If you rotate, those tires on the front will wear faster. The higher pressure helps prevent the sides from wearing out sooner on the front, but the front take a harder beating and still wear faster than the rear.
Maximum Tire pressure (a police perspective)We've talked here before about max cold tire inflation pressure.
Here's a fascinating article from Officer.com . Some police
officers drive with maximum air pressure in their tires as shown
on the tire sidewall, not the door sill or the owner's manual.
Here's a link to the article for some great photographs:
http://www.officer.com/article/artic...on=19&id=27281
and here's the text in case the page is deleted in the future:
Driving Under Pressure
Proper Tire Pressure Could Save Your Life
Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
SGT. DAVE STORTON
EVOC Contributor
Officer.com
How many officers check the tire pressure on their patrol car
on a regular basis? We all seem to be great at checking that
the lights and siren work, because the time to find out they
don't work is not when you get a Code 3 call. Likewise, the
time to find out your tire pressure is too low is not when you
are in a pursuit and trying to take a corner at high speed.
What is proper pressure?
The proper tire pressure for the Police Crown Victoria is 44 psi.
If you look on the sidewall of the tire, you will see that it
lists 44 psi max pressure. Regardless of what vehicle you have,
use the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall. Higher pressure
results in better performance, decreased tire wear, and it
lessens your chance of hydroplaning at a given speed. This number
on the sidewall lists the maximum amount of pressure you should
ever put in the tire under normal driving conditions. Pursuits
and Code 3 responses are not normal driving conditions. Many
agencies maintain tire pressure at 35 psi since this is what
is listed in the owner's manual and on the door placard. The
reason the owner's manual lists 35 psi is because we get the
same manual as the civilian version of the Crown Victoria. The
police version, however, is fully loaded with communications
equipment, a cage, and your gear. You are not looking for a soft
and cushy ride, you want performance.
Myths about pressure
Let^�s put to rest some common misconceptions. The tires will
not balloon out creating a peak in the center portion of the
tread when tire pressure is above 35 psi. There is a steel belt
that prevents this from happening. Also, you are not
overstressing the tire with higher pressure, and the tire will
not be forced off the rim with higher pressure. The picture
above is Bobby Ore of Bobby Ore Motorsports driving a Ford Ranger
on two wheels. The tires on the left side have 100 psi in them,
and they happen to be tires and rims from a 1999 Crown Victoria!
This is a dramatic example of how pressure holds the tire in
shape, and how much stress a tire can handle.
Performance
If you were able to watch a tire as it travels across the
ground at high speed, you would see that it deflects to one
side during cornering. The faster you are going through a corner,
the more tire deflection you get. As the tire deflects over onto
the sidewall, you get less traction and more of a tendency to
understeer or oversteer. This could spell disaster when
negotiating a corner at high speed during a pursuit or a Code 3
run. Higher pressure keeps the tire from deflecting onto the
sidewall as much, which keeps more of the treaded portion on
the road.
A good demonstration for EVOC instructors is to have students
drive a high-speed course in a vehicle with 32 to 35 psi. Then
have them run the same course with 44 to 50 psi in the tires.
The student will experience a marked difference in performance.
Having officers experience this difference in vehicle
performance is much more effective than just telling them to
check their tire pressure.
Hydroplaning
When a tire rolls across a road covered with water, the tire
tread channels water away so the rubber remains in contact with
the road. The factors that affect hydroplaning are speed, and
water depth. Conventional wisdom says that vehicles will hydroplane
in as little as 1/16th of an inch of water. Not so coincidentally,
legal tread depth is 1/16th of an inch.
Tire manufactures and the Association of Law Enforcement Emergency
Response Trainers International (ALERT) have shown that tires have
more of a tendency to hydroplane when pressure is low. This
happens because the tire footprint (the portion of the tire
actually in contact with the road) is larger. For those of you
who water ski, think of which is easier to get up on: a fat ski
or a skinny ski. More tire surface in contact with the water
makes it easier to hydroplane, just as it is easier to water ski
on a fat ski. Also, a soft tire can be pushed in more by the
pressure of the water on the center portion of the tread. This
results in less rubber in contact with the road.
Tire wear
Much better tire wear results from maintaining proper pressure.
Tires with lower pressure will wear off the outside of the tread
faster from the deflection of the tire during cornering, and the
tires will heat up more from increased road friction. This is one
of the factors that caused the failure of a certain brand of
tires on Ford Explorers some years ago. In 1999 the San Jose
Police Department realized a significant cost savings by
increasing the pressure in the training fleet to 50 psi. They
soon followed up by increasing the pressure in the patrol fleet
to 44 psi. For liability reasons, most agencies are reluctant to
exceed the maximum pressure listed on the tire for actual patrol
vehicles, but they reap the cost saving when going to 50 psi on
training vehicles.
Next time you inspect your vehicle, make sure you check your
tire pressure since your ability to performance drive is
significantly affected by it. You are not driving to the store
to get a loaf of bread! You may be called upon to chase a
dangerous criminal or respond to assist another officer in
trouble. You don't wonder whether or not your gun is loaded
before you hit the street; don't wonder whether your tire
pressure is correct once the pursuit starts. Check your tires
routinely, just as you do with all other critical equipment.
--
Sgt. Dave Storton is the Director of the San Jose Police
Academy, and he holds a Master's Degree in Adult Education.
He is the lead instructor for the Emergency Vehicle Operations
Course (EVOC) at the San Jose Police Academy, and is a lead
instructor for the local regional academy. He teaches EVOC
instructor courses, advanced EVOC instructor courses, off road
EVOC, counter-terrorist / dignitary protection driving, and
motion picture stunt driving. Dave has trained over 3,500
drivers.
officers drive with maximum air pressure in their tires as shown
on the tire sidewall, not the door sill or the owner's manual.
Here's a link to the article for some great photographs:
http://www.officer.com/article/artic...on=19&id=27281
and here's the text in case the page is deleted in the future:
Driving Under Pressure
Proper Tire Pressure Could Save Your Life
Posted: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
SGT. DAVE STORTON
EVOC Contributor
Officer.com
How many officers check the tire pressure on their patrol car
on a regular basis? We all seem to be great at checking that
the lights and siren work, because the time to find out they
don't work is not when you get a Code 3 call. Likewise, the
time to find out your tire pressure is too low is not when you
are in a pursuit and trying to take a corner at high speed.
What is proper pressure?
The proper tire pressure for the Police Crown Victoria is 44 psi.
If you look on the sidewall of the tire, you will see that it
lists 44 psi max pressure. Regardless of what vehicle you have,
use the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall. Higher pressure
results in better performance, decreased tire wear, and it
lessens your chance of hydroplaning at a given speed. This number
on the sidewall lists the maximum amount of pressure you should
ever put in the tire under normal driving conditions. Pursuits
and Code 3 responses are not normal driving conditions. Many
agencies maintain tire pressure at 35 psi since this is what
is listed in the owner's manual and on the door placard. The
reason the owner's manual lists 35 psi is because we get the
same manual as the civilian version of the Crown Victoria. The
police version, however, is fully loaded with communications
equipment, a cage, and your gear. You are not looking for a soft
and cushy ride, you want performance.
Myths about pressure
Let^�s put to rest some common misconceptions. The tires will
not balloon out creating a peak in the center portion of the
tread when tire pressure is above 35 psi. There is a steel belt
that prevents this from happening. Also, you are not
overstressing the tire with higher pressure, and the tire will
not be forced off the rim with higher pressure. The picture
above is Bobby Ore of Bobby Ore Motorsports driving a Ford Ranger
on two wheels. The tires on the left side have 100 psi in them,
and they happen to be tires and rims from a 1999 Crown Victoria!
This is a dramatic example of how pressure holds the tire in
shape, and how much stress a tire can handle.
Performance
If you were able to watch a tire as it travels across the
ground at high speed, you would see that it deflects to one
side during cornering. The faster you are going through a corner,
the more tire deflection you get. As the tire deflects over onto
the sidewall, you get less traction and more of a tendency to
understeer or oversteer. This could spell disaster when
negotiating a corner at high speed during a pursuit or a Code 3
run. Higher pressure keeps the tire from deflecting onto the
sidewall as much, which keeps more of the treaded portion on
the road.
A good demonstration for EVOC instructors is to have students
drive a high-speed course in a vehicle with 32 to 35 psi. Then
have them run the same course with 44 to 50 psi in the tires.
The student will experience a marked difference in performance.
Having officers experience this difference in vehicle
performance is much more effective than just telling them to
check their tire pressure.
Hydroplaning
When a tire rolls across a road covered with water, the tire
tread channels water away so the rubber remains in contact with
the road. The factors that affect hydroplaning are speed, and
water depth. Conventional wisdom says that vehicles will hydroplane
in as little as 1/16th of an inch of water. Not so coincidentally,
legal tread depth is 1/16th of an inch.
Tire manufactures and the Association of Law Enforcement Emergency
Response Trainers International (ALERT) have shown that tires have
more of a tendency to hydroplane when pressure is low. This
happens because the tire footprint (the portion of the tire
actually in contact with the road) is larger. For those of you
who water ski, think of which is easier to get up on: a fat ski
or a skinny ski. More tire surface in contact with the water
makes it easier to hydroplane, just as it is easier to water ski
on a fat ski. Also, a soft tire can be pushed in more by the
pressure of the water on the center portion of the tread. This
results in less rubber in contact with the road.
Tire wear
Much better tire wear results from maintaining proper pressure.
Tires with lower pressure will wear off the outside of the tread
faster from the deflection of the tire during cornering, and the
tires will heat up more from increased road friction. This is one
of the factors that caused the failure of a certain brand of
tires on Ford Explorers some years ago. In 1999 the San Jose
Police Department realized a significant cost savings by
increasing the pressure in the training fleet to 50 psi. They
soon followed up by increasing the pressure in the patrol fleet
to 44 psi. For liability reasons, most agencies are reluctant to
exceed the maximum pressure listed on the tire for actual patrol
vehicles, but they reap the cost saving when going to 50 psi on
training vehicles.
Next time you inspect your vehicle, make sure you check your
tire pressure since your ability to performance drive is
significantly affected by it. You are not driving to the store
to get a loaf of bread! You may be called upon to chase a
dangerous criminal or respond to assist another officer in
trouble. You don't wonder whether or not your gun is loaded
before you hit the street; don't wonder whether your tire
pressure is correct once the pursuit starts. Check your tires
routinely, just as you do with all other critical equipment.
--
Sgt. Dave Storton is the Director of the San Jose Police
Academy, and he holds a Master's Degree in Adult Education.
He is the lead instructor for the Emergency Vehicle Operations
Course (EVOC) at the San Jose Police Academy, and is a lead
instructor for the local regional academy. He teaches EVOC
instructor courses, advanced EVOC instructor courses, off road
EVOC, counter-terrorist / dignitary protection driving, and
motion picture stunt driving. Dave has trained over 3,500
drivers.
#6
07-18-2011, 08:13 PM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I rotate my own tires using a floor jack using three jack points (two front and one rear-center) and four jack stands. I use the manual recommended jack points in the front, one side at a time, and put each jack stand under the largest inner/center portion of the lower A arm. Once the front is in the air use a 4x4 block between the jack and the center of the rear suspension housing to raise the rear. *IMPORTANT* If you're using a floor jack, make sure that the base of the jack rolls forward a little as the lift arm rises and moves backward in it's arced path. If the jack doesn't roll a little, it will pull the front of the vehicle and upset the balance on the front jack stands.
Once the rear is in the air, I put jack stands under the lower arms of the rear on each side (can't remember exactly where but I seem to remember there's a logical location). Put the weight onto the jack stands and leave the jack under the rear as insurance.
Just remember to loosen the lug nuts just a bit before you jack everything up. Rotate the tires per the manual and reverse the process to let the vehicle down (including the slight roll back of the floor jack as you let the rear down). Finish tightening the lugs per the manual and you're ready to go.
I've got 73,0000mi on my original Conti's and expect another 10,000 at least. No noise problems but we have pretty good roads in my area so YMMV.
{soapbox} I've seen way to many broken studs and stripped threads due to improper air gun usage at shops. I've also had to help people with flat tires that couldn't get the tire off because of over-tightened/stripped lugs. I've even seen broken/bent roadside tools from the same. If you do it by hand and as directed this is NEVER a problem and you'll have piece of mind that it's done right. It might be a little slower than an air wrench but it's not that hard if you have a 4-way lug wrench. That said, I understand not everyone wants (or has the time) to have this relationship with their vehicle. To each their own and happy motoring. {/soapbox}
Once the rear is in the air, I put jack stands under the lower arms of the rear on each side (can't remember exactly where but I seem to remember there's a logical location). Put the weight onto the jack stands and leave the jack under the rear as insurance.
Just remember to loosen the lug nuts just a bit before you jack everything up. Rotate the tires per the manual and reverse the process to let the vehicle down (including the slight roll back of the floor jack as you let the rear down). Finish tightening the lugs per the manual and you're ready to go.
I've got 73,0000mi on my original Conti's and expect another 10,000 at least. No noise problems but we have pretty good roads in my area so YMMV.
{soapbox} I've seen way to many broken studs and stripped threads due to improper air gun usage at shops. I've also had to help people with flat tires that couldn't get the tire off because of over-tightened/stripped lugs. I've even seen broken/bent roadside tools from the same. If you do it by hand and as directed this is NEVER a problem and you'll have piece of mind that it's done right. It might be a little slower than an air wrench but it's not that hard if you have a 4-way lug wrench. That said, I understand not everyone wants (or has the time) to have this relationship with their vehicle. To each their own and happy motoring. {/soapbox}
#7
07-19-2011, 04:41 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I rotate my own tires using a floor jack using three jack points (two front and one rear-center) and four jack stands. I use the manual recommended jack points in the front, one side at a time, and put each jack stand under the largest inner/center portion of the lower A arm. Once the front is in the air use a 4x4 block between the jack and the center of the rear suspension housing to raise the rear. *IMPORTANT* If you're using a floor jack, make sure that the base of the jack rolls forward a little as the lift arm rises and moves backward in it's arced path. If the jack doesn't roll a little, it will pull the front of the vehicle and upset the balance on the front jack stands.
Once the rear is in the air, I put jack stands under the lower arms of the rear on each side (can't remember exactly where but I seem to remember there's a logical location). Put the weight onto the jack stands and leave the jack under the rear as insurance.
Just remember to loosen the lug nuts just a bit before you jack everything up. Rotate the tires per the manual and reverse the process to let the vehicle down (including the slight roll back of the floor jack as you let the rear down). Finish tightening the lugs per the manual and you're ready to go.
I've got 73,0000mi on my original Conti's and expect another 10,000 at least. No noise problems but we have pretty good roads in my area so YMMV.
{soapbox} I've seen way to many broken studs and stripped threads due to improper air gun usage at shops. I've also had to help people with flat tires that couldn't get the tire off because of over-tightened/stripped lugs. I've even seen broken/bent roadside tools from the same. If you do it by hand and as directed this is NEVER a problem and you'll have piece of mind that it's done right. It might be a little slower than an air wrench but it's not that hard if you have a 4-way lug wrench. That said, I understand not everyone wants (or has the time) to have this relationship with their vehicle. To each their own and happy motoring. {/soapbox}
Once the rear is in the air, I put jack stands under the lower arms of the rear on each side (can't remember exactly where but I seem to remember there's a logical location). Put the weight onto the jack stands and leave the jack under the rear as insurance.
Just remember to loosen the lug nuts just a bit before you jack everything up. Rotate the tires per the manual and reverse the process to let the vehicle down (including the slight roll back of the floor jack as you let the rear down). Finish tightening the lugs per the manual and you're ready to go.
I've got 73,0000mi on my original Conti's and expect another 10,000 at least. No noise problems but we have pretty good roads in my area so YMMV.
{soapbox} I've seen way to many broken studs and stripped threads due to improper air gun usage at shops. I've also had to help people with flat tires that couldn't get the tire off because of over-tightened/stripped lugs. I've even seen broken/bent roadside tools from the same. If you do it by hand and as directed this is NEVER a problem and you'll have piece of mind that it's done right. It might be a little slower than an air wrench but it's not that hard if you have a 4-way lug wrench. That said, I understand not everyone wants (or has the time) to have this relationship with their vehicle. To each their own and happy motoring. {/soapbox}
#8
07-19-2011, 05:54 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I'm positive this covers the torque wrench part.
If you want to be a productive member of this board, why don't you stop taking jabs at other posters who take the time to post their observations and hands-on experience with the FEH? You're statements, like the one above, are not helpful.
An example of a helpful reply post from you would have been:
Bolt size :
N
If you want to be a productive member of this board, why don't you stop taking jabs at other posters who take the time to post their observations and hands-on experience with the FEH? You're statements, like the one above, are not helpful.
An example of a helpful reply post from you would have been:
WHEEL LUG NUT TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Retighten the lug nuts to the specified torque at 500 miles (800 km)
after any wheel disturbance (tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel
removal, etc.).
Retighten the lug nuts to the specified torque at 500 miles (800 km)
after any wheel disturbance (tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel
removal, etc.).
Bolt size :
M12 x 1.5
Wheel lug nut torque*
lb.ft.: 100
Wheel lug nut torque*
lb.ft.: 100
N
•m: 135
* Torque specifications are for nut and bolt threads free of dirt and rust. Use only Ford recommended replacement fasteners.
(08 FEH Owners Guide, p. 223 - first printing)
#9
07-19-2011, 09:21 AM
Re: Best Jack Placement for Tire Rotation
I'm positive this covers the torque wrench part.
If you want to be a productive member of this board, why don't you stop taking jabs at other posters who take the time to post their observations and hands-on experience with the FEH? You're statements, like the one above, are not helpful.
An example of a helpful reply post from you would have been:
Bolt size :
N
If you want to be a productive member of this board, why don't you stop taking jabs at other posters who take the time to post their observations and hands-on experience with the FEH? You're statements, like the one above, are not helpful.
An example of a helpful reply post from you would have been:
WHEEL LUG NUT TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS
Retighten the lug nuts to the specified torque at 500 miles (800 km)
after any wheel disturbance (tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel
removal, etc.).
Retighten the lug nuts to the specified torque at 500 miles (800 km)
after any wheel disturbance (tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel
removal, etc.).
Bolt size :
M12 x 1.5
Wheel lug nut torque*
lb.ft.: 100
Wheel lug nut torque*
lb.ft.: 100
N
•m: 135
* Torque specifications are for nut and bolt threads free of dirt and rust. Use only Ford recommended replacement fasteners.
* Torque specifications are for nut and bolt threads free of dirt and rust. Use only Ford recommended replacement fasteners.
(08 FEH Owners Guide, p. 223 - first printing)
