jworth… It doesn’t **** me off, I don’t really care whether he has it autopsied or not. His*money, his engine, but I would like to learn something from this if the details ever come to light.

But the bum dope being put out should be countered (consider the guy who was in the “failed timing belt camp…”). The discussion about specs and 5w-20 vs 5w-30 weight oil is a canard that distracts from people learning from this.

Unless someone looks at just what really failed, the rest of us just won’t have a clue as to what happened or how to avoid it. So far there is just no info as to the failure mode.

Has the remaining oil in the sump been checked? What did the oil filter element look like? Each of these simple, no cost checks would speak directly to the root cause. There’s a*few others that might be done like pulling off the valve covers and just looking at the vale train.

The engine is clearly not a unique hybrid component, as I mentioned in a post above, it is a standard Ford Duratec block and so on.

If there truly was no operator error then Ford could be asked to bear some responsibility at this low mileage, but that has to be established.

 

I really HATE statements such as these, and thus tend to dislike persons making them.

If you are not a Ford Hybrid fan, then why did you buy one?
You do not understand the definition of "reliable". One catastropic failure per every 100,000 built is the very definition of reliable. Your one failure out of one purchased does not change how reliable the car is.

You are saying "I found a worm in an apple, so I'm not ever going to buy apples ever again, and I suggest no one else ever buy apples either."

You had BAD LUCK. Nothing more. If it happens to me, I won't be happy about it, but 2 failures out of 100,000 won't make me bash Ford either.
There are FEW things in life with such reliability as the FEH.
Do you know the Space Shuttle has a 1 in 100 catastrophic failure rate???*

*( I consider each new launch to be a complete rebuild, as it nearly is. Otherwise, you could say it has a 40% failure rate. )

 

AMEN. Agree. It's hard to be the 1 or 2 people out of 100,000, for sure, but that's the way it goes statistically.

I had problems with my new 1991 Ford Explorer 4x4 gearbox, which had to be replaced. Bad luck. But the replacement (under warranty, lucky me) lasted another 17 years.

 

Short of a design flaw, for which Ford would be responsible, YOU make your own luck.

Routine maintenance is just too easy and it has gotten simpler. On my first car I changed plugs and points every 10k miles and oil & filter every 3k miles. Now all you have to do is change oil every 10-12k and plugs out to 50-100k…

These engines have been around for over a century, the basic design is simple, and the assembly line process that puts them together is well established. Based on your failure to provide any substantive info on the failure I have concluded that this has to be operator error.

I had hoped credible info would be forthcoming on this failure. Since it has not and you have let the speculation roll, I can only conclude that there is clear operator error involved.

Have fun in court, without clear responsibility on Ford’s part you haven’t a chance.

Have a nice day!

 

"I had hoped credible info would be forthcoming on this failure. Since it has not and you have let the speculation roll, I can only conclude that there is clear operator error involved."

Folks, credible information has not come forth because there is no new information available. The vehicle is 170 miles from home and, for me, arranging to pay for a $6500 repair is not something I can accomplish in a day or two. Please forgive me: Concluding "operator error" without facts sounds like speculation.

Here are known facts: Oil/filter were changed, on average, every 3400 miles with a national, reputable brand. The longest interval between oil changes is 4,000 miles, 20% better than Ford's recommended 5,000 mile interval. Every recommended maintenance was performed at or before the recommended service interval. The vehicle was traveling @ 65-70mph on cruise control when the engine failed. I'm having trouble understanding 'operator error' with these known facts.

I expect to drive 170 miles and pick up the vehicle in six days or so. Then I will have a face-to-face with the service manager, look at the failed engine and perhaps tear some of it apart for a look-see. Then I will have more facts to share.

My real issue is not the failed engine. I've had vehicles with poor history and expensive repairs before. However, in all of those cases, when out of warranty, the dealer and manufacturer were willing to examine what happened, examine the service history, and make a decision whether to assist with the repairs - or not. Most of the time, they have assisted due to my habit of 'over-maintaining' vehicles I own. Ford has not done this. Their Customer Service Center examined one fact: 65,000 miles, and concluded "Too bad. You're on your own". Whether you believe the vehicle is reliable - or not - do you want to experience this type of customer service long term?

OK, you're right. I do have an issue with a catastrophic engine failure. Answer honestly: If your FEH experienced a catastrophic engine failure only 5,000 miles out of an extended warranty, would you remain an enthusiast of the vehicle, or the brand, or the company?

 

Engines don't just fail out of the blue. I've spent a career operating propulsion plants and I've done my share of "root cause" investigations.

This engine is a known design.

For the engine the key features that make it an Atkinson cycle engine are really minor in the big scheme of things and there is nothing in the design of this engine that is specific to the hybrid role of the engine (eg the Atkinson cycle design could be applied to any engine).

Remember the scene out of the Movie "The Right Stuff" where Gus Grissom is trying to explain how the "hatch just blew" on Liberty Bell 7? In the end he couldn't even get his wife to believe him...

Well, a car with 65k on the odometer doesn't just fail out of the blue. One feature of this car is the lack of an oil pressure gauge. I don't like that.

The one time I had a loss of oil pressure on my Suburban I knew something was up because the oil pressure gauge was bouncing around for several minutes. So when it went fully to zero and lit the warning light I was already alerted and stopped the engine immediately with no damage (I was on an interstate)(& yes I do oil analysis and this was confirmed by oil samples)(96k miles ago).

This was a major loss of oil. The serpentine belt idler pulley bearing had seized shredding the belt. The belt then cut an oil hose that caused the engine to pump itself down. When there was no more oil the light came on. But as I noted I had warning.

In the case of this car you will have no warning.

I have to wonder, did you leave the filler cap off the engine, could the oil filter cap have been loose? I suspect that the dealer you took it to called Ford immediately and told them what they saw. My inference is that it wasn't pretty and Ford has responded to whatever was said.

So have detailed discussion with the dealer when you pick up your FEH, take notes as to who said what, get names as to who did the inspections and courteously let them figure out you're looking at going after this (they won't want to be in the middle of it).

Take a digital camera and take pics of the old engine before you take custody of it. This is unlikely to be an issue: but verify the serial number of the engine and make sure it was what came out of your FEH.

Get the mechanic that did the removal and assessment of condition to talk with you and answer questions. Don't get distracted with the oil spec & weight, that is a bs side discussion with no future. If Jiffy Lube has any responsibility it will be for something like not properly tightening the filter cap leading to loss of oil.

Get them to give you all parts removed from your engine & car.

As the saying goes... rotsa ruck.

 

The 800 number customer service reps don't have the authority to authorize Ford participation. All they can do is refer your concern to the dealership. Had the concern happened and the vehicle taken to your selling dealership, they might have gone to bat for you with Ford, up front, once they understood the nature of the failure. You said they were trying to help with the zone manager, so I give them points for that.

For the most part, dealerships are given a pool of money they can spend on after warranty adjustments. They have to decide who gets the help. If you did not do your service and maintenance work with them, they have little incentive (except perhaps your future vehicle purchases) to spend the money on your vehicle.

But until somebody determines what caused the failure, it is not fair to say Ford has not done what they need to do. If your lubrication specialists decided they didn't really need to replace the filter, since it wasn't in stock, or they used an oil that didn't meet the Ford specification, etc. your issue might be with them. Signs of improperly spec'd products or lack of maintenance would include sludge, gallded bearings, disintergrated or plugged filters, oil galleys plugged, etc.

I suggested you have the service manager at your selling dealership call the service manager at the repairing dealership to determine the cause of the failure. I will add, have your oil change place call them also, since, if lack of lubrication caused the problem, they might stand for a portion of the repair cost.

I know a lot of people feer like they purchased their vehicle from "Ford". They purchased it from a dealer that bought it from Ford. (Just like all auto companies.) The dealership is charged with the responsibility of managing the ownership experience and given lots of tools to help do that. There are zone managers and field service engineers that assist dealerships in the processes, but the dealership is their primary customer.

If I were in your situation, I would ask if a Ford field service engineer could examine your engine and report on the findings. Especailly if the issue is with your oil changer.

 

Dan -

You may want to post your experience on blueovalforums.com and see what kind of advice they give you there. There is a specific forum for "open letters to Ford management".
IMHO there is a 99% chance that your failure was not hybrid technology related (1% chance the PCM s/w was to blame?)......but nobody else knows that. All Ford needs to realize is that you will be out there spreading the word that you had a complete failure of your hybrid drive train at 65k....not the best publicity for a company trying to hype their new hybrid models (all with the same drive train as in the FEH).

Good luck, but don't hate on the hybrid technology....it's still in your vehicle ready to operate with a new ICE.

 

Sadly these economic times are tight for everyone, including companies. Free/reduced things of past years is not happening these days. Just look at my job at an airline. Used to get things free, like food, blankets, bags, water, etc. Even my own airline that still has free bags has started charging for things that used to be free, we hope to find the fine line that keeps up in the black, yet won't lose to many customers.
So what Ford used to do (or any company) is not necessiarily the things they will do today when every single penny counts!

Would I be pissed if my FEH breaks just after warrenty, or even long after warrenty? Hell yes! Will I be blaming Ford, standing on a soap box telling the whole world to never buy this piece of crap technology from this crappy company because ONE vehicle failed outside of warrenty (long after factory warrenty) and the manufacter refuses to pay for it? I would not.
Look at the posts about the battery door actuator failing, it seems several happened at the same time (different years) and it is not covered by the Hybrid warrenty. Luckily for those out, it was only a $200-$300 repair, not a $6500 one. Did they all start screaming this thing sucks!

Sorry this has happened, hope noone else has this problem, and more imporantly hope we find out what failed!
I still can't believe a service manager can't or won't tell you what they know by phone! Or that you agreeded to a $6500 repair w/o seeing the problem pointed out in person or a 2nd opnion. maybe this Ford dealer is a bad one that rips people off, just like in the movies, 1000 miles from anywhere, they can charge what ever they want.

I had my Falcon in last year for a few hundred dollars of repairs, wound up paying $1200 by the time it was over, but I called other shops before agreeing to the work to compare rates.

 

Bad luck...only....??

maybe.

Remember that DC-10 that crashed in Iowa and made the United pilot a hero...?

When they found the compressor "wheel" (in a cornfield) that had caused the crash they discovered a "void", origin of the failure, in the metal that had been there, undiscovered, since the part was manufactured.

Absent an analysis who's to say...??