1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
#11
04-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
Your e/CVT REQUIRES a significant level of input power, ELECTRIC input power, to "match" (~3:1..??) the power of the engine. On a long pull such as you describe, requiring FULL engine torque to sustain the desired speed, I have little doubt that the battery would soon be depleted. At some point nearing full depletion a portion of the engine torque would begin to be used to supply electric power to keep the e/CVT operational.
So your roadspeed could not be sustained.
So your roadspeed could not be sustained.
#12
04-14-2009, 02:45 AM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
MMooney quoted wwest:
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
#13
04-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
MMooney quoted wwest:
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
That would be why Mark Mooney responded to wild willie tht if what he said were true, John would never get out of Denver...
#14
04-14-2009, 09:21 AM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
True if headed west, but if headed east its all downhill to the Mississippi ...
Maybe someone could make it to the Mississippi on the battery?
Maybe someone could make it to the Mississippi on the battery?
#15
04-14-2009, 09:36 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
Good info.
The question I am looking at is: Can the FEH, while towing, climb a long hill at highway speeds?
What I consider highway speed is 55-65. My criteria for a long hill is a 7% grade on I-64 in West Virginia that is about 5-6 miles long and a very steady grade.
I have little doubt that the FEH can climb a steep grade short enough to not deplete the battery. Electric motors are power plants that "just keep on giving and giving (or more correctly pulling and pulling!)," at least until something melts in them...
But, if you are on the highway and towing, if this 7% & 5 mile
long hill calls for full engine output power plus traction motor power to keep up with traffic flow, will it make it without pulling over to charge the battery?
I suspect that part of Ford's towing limit criteria has to do with this scenario.
Any experience out there like this?
The question I am looking at is: Can the FEH, while towing, climb a long hill at highway speeds?
What I consider highway speed is 55-65. My criteria for a long hill is a 7% grade on I-64 in West Virginia that is about 5-6 miles long and a very steady grade.
I have little doubt that the FEH can climb a steep grade short enough to not deplete the battery. Electric motors are power plants that "just keep on giving and giving (or more correctly pulling and pulling!)," at least until something melts in them...
But, if you are on the highway and towing, if this 7% & 5 mile
long hill calls for full engine output power plus traction motor power to keep up with traffic flow, will it make it without pulling over to charge the battery?
I suspect that part of Ford's towing limit criteria has to do with this scenario.
Any experience out there like this?
Last edited by wwest; 04-14-2009 at 12:04 PM.
#16
04-14-2009, 10:32 AM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
The question, in bold above, clearly implies that 100% of the ICE capability PLUS that required of the traction motor is being used to provide forward motion. Therefore the hybrid battery MUST be supplying the power to drive the e/CVT's traction motor. Assuming the 5 mile criteria you either give up on sustaining speed to match traffic flow or pull over long enough to recharge the hybrid battery.
Got it. There were several posts after that to reassure Bill that the thing will climb fine without getting into the battery.
Having said that, I was coming from San Francisco, heading for Denver, in the Highlander Hybrid. Having a great time, not worrying about hypermiling and enjoying the fact that, since my vehicle's extra power came from the batteries, I wasn't hampered by the lack of oxygen at 10,000 feet. I could get enough regen on the downhills to use the battery on the uphills and life was good.
We stopped for the night in Frisco, Co... The off ramp was at the middle of a pretty long string of up hill. The next morning, I had a Highlander with very little soc in the batteries. Pretty much ran out of 'help' before the tunnel, and was relegated to the slow lane with the other folks who were limping over the hump. There was no problem as far as continuing was concerned, but there wasn't much poop until we made it over the top and got to spin up the battery on the next down hill.
Mark
#17
04-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwestern Pa
Posts: 1,747
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
I also posted about the individual who towed a 14 foot Shasta Trailer thru West Virginia with the FEH. This individual did make it without the need to pull over "to recharge the batteries".
#18
04-15-2009, 03:22 PM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
MMooney quoted wwest:
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller. It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
#19
04-15-2009, 08:22 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
MMooney quoted wwest:
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller.
It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
wwest's post indicates a fundamental failure to understand how these machines work.
The ICE is more powerful than either of the two synchronous machines. Unless the power demand is larger than the ICE can produce, supplementary power is not necessarily commanded by the controller.
It is important to view the transaxle (planetary gear set) as a summing machine.
wwest's statement that it requires "significant... input power, electric... power (3:1) to match the power of the engine" is just wrong. Sorry.
#20
04-16-2009, 09:23 AM
Re: 1000lb interior load and electric assist on 11% uphill
Decided when I put him on my ignore list to respond if something of his was quoted by someone else. Appears that is not needed any more. Got it. I'll stop even that.
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
