'10 vs '09 FEH MPG
#11
01-25-2010, 12:39 AM
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Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
Wideband oxygen sensors...
The old sensors could only be used to tell if oxygen was present in the exhaust flow, was, or was not, yes or no, binary function. So the method used once the mixture was within stoichiometric "zone" was for the engine control ECU to continuously vary the mixture from rich to lean and monitor the oxygen sensor's yes/no/yes/no/yes/no "sawtooth" signal response.
The new oxygen sensors have more of a linear output but still in a very tight range "about" the stoichiometric "zone". When enriching of the mixture is required due to engine load/loading the MAF/IAT module must be used since even the new sensors do not have that much range.
The only difference between the two is that now the engine ECU doesn't have to "dither" the mixture ratio up and down to detect the exhaust oxygen content once the stoichiometric zone is reached.
Oh, the new sensors are 4-wire, the extra pair is used for preheating in order to more quickly bring the oxygen sensor into reliable sensing range.
The old sensors could only be used to tell if oxygen was present in the exhaust flow, was, or was not, yes or no, binary function. So the method used once the mixture was within stoichiometric "zone" was for the engine control ECU to continuously vary the mixture from rich to lean and monitor the oxygen sensor's yes/no/yes/no/yes/no "sawtooth" signal response.
The new oxygen sensors have more of a linear output but still in a very tight range "about" the stoichiometric "zone". When enriching of the mixture is required due to engine load/loading the MAF/IAT module must be used since even the new sensors do not have that much range.
The only difference between the two is that now the engine ECU doesn't have to "dither" the mixture ratio up and down to detect the exhaust oxygen content once the stoichiometric zone is reached.
Oh, the new sensors are 4-wire, the extra pair is used for preheating in order to more quickly bring the oxygen sensor into reliable sensing range.
Last edited by wwest; 01-25-2010 at 12:43 AM.
#12
01-25-2010, 12:45 AM
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Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
"Supposedly" wideband O2s have at least six wires reading a Bosch document. They've been around for years.
The '09 and '10 PC/ED manuals on O2s discribe both regular and wideband types but doesn't mention if they are used on the vehicle. Presently, I can't view electrical diagrams online or I'd look at the '10s.
My '09 FE wiring diagram shows five O2s for the V6! Two are Labeled as "Low Emmision vehicles", they are #12 and #22, yet there is another one marked as #12! The remaining are #11 and #21. Nothing special marked on the I4 or extra O2s either. All O2s have only four wires.
What makes you think that wideband O2s are used on the '10 FEH?
More than contaminated, they are falling apart on the inside! There's a longer warranty on emmisions and some have had to wait for CATs on backorder. Seems to be a very high failure rate!
The '09 and '10 PC/ED manuals on O2s discribe both regular and wideband types but doesn't mention if they are used on the vehicle. Presently, I can't view electrical diagrams online or I'd look at the '10s.
My '09 FE wiring diagram shows five O2s for the V6! Two are Labeled as "Low Emmision vehicles", they are #12 and #22, yet there is another one marked as #12! The remaining are #11 and #21. Nothing special marked on the I4 or extra O2s either. All O2s have only four wires.
What makes you think that wideband O2s are used on the '10 FEH?
More than contaminated, they are falling apart on the inside! There's a longer warranty on emmisions and some have had to wait for CATs on backorder. Seems to be a very high failure rate!
EPA and CARB regulations.
#13
01-25-2010, 06:52 AM
Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
Wideband oxygen sensors...
The old sensors could only be used to tell if oxygen was present in the exhaust flow, was, or was not, yes or no, binary function. So the method used once the mixture was within stoichiometric "zone" was for the engine control ECU to continuously vary the mixture from rich to lean and monitor the oxygen sensor's yes/no/yes/no/yes/no "sawtooth" signal response.
The new oxygen sensors have more of a linear output but still in a very tight range "about" the stoichiometric "zone". When enriching of the mixture is required due to engine load/loading the MAF/IAT module must be used since even the new sensors do not have that much range.
The only difference between the two is that now the engine ECU doesn't have to "dither" the mixture ratio up and down to detect the exhaust oxygen content once the stoichiometric zone is reached.
Oh, the new sensors are 4-wire, the extra pair is used for preheating in order to more quickly bring the oxygen sensor into reliable sensing range.
The old sensors could only be used to tell if oxygen was present in the exhaust flow, was, or was not, yes or no, binary function. So the method used once the mixture was within stoichiometric "zone" was for the engine control ECU to continuously vary the mixture from rich to lean and monitor the oxygen sensor's yes/no/yes/no/yes/no "sawtooth" signal response.
The new oxygen sensors have more of a linear output but still in a very tight range "about" the stoichiometric "zone". When enriching of the mixture is required due to engine load/loading the MAF/IAT module must be used since even the new sensors do not have that much range.
The only difference between the two is that now the engine ECU doesn't have to "dither" the mixture ratio up and down to detect the exhaust oxygen content once the stoichiometric zone is reached.
Oh, the new sensors are 4-wire, the extra pair is used for preheating in order to more quickly bring the oxygen sensor into reliable sensing range.
#14
01-25-2010, 06:53 AM
Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
EDIT:
I looked at the PC/ED manuals for '10 again. They have a seperate manual for the FE and FEH for 2010.
Found the following DTC code for the Hybrid as well as gas version. A universal heated oxygen sensor is another name for a wideband O2. So, they are used in all Escapes starting in '10. The PinPoint Test DZ shows a 6-pin connector also.
P2626 - O2 Sensor Positive Current Trim Circuit/Open (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Description: During deceleration fuel shut-off (DFSO) the powertrain control module (PCM) monitors the integrity of the universal heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) UO2SPCT circuit by comparing the actual oxygen sensor voltage signal to an expected oxygen sensor voltage signal. The test fails when the actual oxygen sensor voltage exceeds the maximum expected voltage threshold for a specified amount of time.
Possible Causes: Corrosion or incorrect harness connections
UO2SPCT circuit open
Diagnostic Aids:
Application Key On Engine Off Key On Engine Running Continuous Memory
All GO to Pinpoint Test DZ .
Last edited by wptski; 01-25-2010 at 07:48 AM.
#15
01-25-2010, 11:37 AM
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Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
I have a wideband oxygen sensor right here in my "hot" liitle hands and it only has 4 wires. What would the other 2 wires be used for..??
A fifth for a shield/ground..??
A fifth for a shield/ground..??
#16
01-25-2010, 11:42 AM
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Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
I have not heard from any of the '10 FEH owners on how it's doing on MPG. When I test drove the '10 I could not believe how fast it went EV from a cold start compared to my '09. My '09 goes EV at a much colder coolant temperature than my '05 and therefore that helps MPG on those short and long trips. I'm thinking the newer exhaust system and new Lamba H02 senors help heat the CAT converter much faster with better fuel/air mixtures. Sometimes I can go EV with a coolant temperature of 123F and less than a mile from my house. I don't think I went 2 blocks when I went EV from a cold start in the '10 FEH.
The other thing I have a question on is the electric A/C and EV. With all the electronics on the '09 and '10 FEH I'm finding the '09 headlights reduce battery SoC building at night during city driving with P&G. The '10 electric A/C must draw more juice than the headlights so can anyone give us some feedback?
GaryG
The other thing I have a question on is the electric A/C and EV. With all the electronics on the '09 and '10 FEH I'm finding the '09 headlights reduce battery SoC building at night during city driving with P&G. The '10 electric A/C must draw more juice than the headlights so can anyone give us some feedback?
GaryG
Shouldn't be a long wait.
#17
01-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
Dont know about the 09 but my 10 FEH AWD, gets about 30 with driving style of a mailman. Stop n go in neighborhoods all day long. If I stay on the road when not working, I have been in the mid 40s regularly on a tank.
Thanks Ford.
Thanks Ford.
#18
01-25-2010, 01:42 PM
Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
EDIT:
Pin Circuit
5 UO2SPCT (Universal Oxygen Sensor Pumping Current Trim)
1 UO2SPC (Universal Oxygen Sensor Pumping Current)
4 VPWR (Vehicle Power)
2 UO2SGREF (Universal Oxygen Sensor Ground Reference)
6 UO2S (Universal Oxygen Sensor)
3 UO2SHTR (Universal Oxygen Sensor Heater)
Last edited by wptski; 01-25-2010 at 04:18 PM.
#19
01-26-2010, 12:04 PM
Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
Personally I will bypass the '10 in favor of waiting for the DFI version of the ICE. With DFI they could probably revert back to the 2.3L engine, not lose any performance and gain substantial FE. With any luck at all Ford might even adopt Toyota's new e/VVT-i technique along with DFI. One up Toyota for once.
Shouldn't be a long wait.
Shouldn't be a long wait.
I think there is a point where Ford will need to switch away from the Atkinson cycle and go with the Eco Boost in its Hybrids as its gas only version will become close to the same efficiency of their Hybrids. An Eco-Boost 2.0L Hybrid might be the right combination to blow away any thing out there with or without plug-in capability. The '09 FEH began a new march on fuel efficiency with the new 2.5L Atkinson and new eCVT programming. I've already had two tanks exceeding 57mpg on (pumped) E10 in my '09 FEHL which is a 4720 pound truck. This was with legally developed hypermiling techniques with FAS and drafting excluded in mostly City driving. When and if Ford goes to a 2.0L Eco-Boost Hybrid there may be no need for a plug-in version.
GaryG
#20
01-26-2010, 07:49 PM
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Re: '10 vs '09 FEH MPG
Wow..that's a lot to "swallow"....!
Hard to know just where to start.
"..knocking on the doors of the Prius regarding MPG..."
No. NOT, NYET..!!
The Toyota HSD technique is now yet again one step ahead of Ford. The new HSD system makes use of the e/VVT-i ("Extended" VVT-i) in order to transition the engine from base Otto mode, 13:1 compression ratio, for light to moderate engine loads/loading, to Atkinson cycle mode, 10:1 effective CR, for higher levels of engine loading, FULLY filling the cylinder volume with A/F mixture.
Should Toyota happen to implement DFI with Atkinson (15:1 CR Otto mode, 12:1 CR Atkinson) before Ford gets around to it then they will be two steps ahead of Ford
TwinForce has now been relabeled EcoBoost by Ford marketing in order to FOOL the buying public into thinking these vehicles (SHO..??) are not the GAS-GUZZLING monstrosities of yesteryear.
Kudos to Ford for DFI, thumbs down for Ford for coupling it with a detuned/derated engine so a turbo could be used to attract the "boy-racer" mentality types.
In order to accommodate turbo boost, intercooled boost, the base/static compression must be reduced from what would otherwise be optimal to something very substantially lower. For a DFI engine that would mean a reduction from ~12:1 to at least 10:1. And if you REALLY want to take advantage of intercooled turbo boost 8:1 might be more reasonable.
So, hwy mileage, off-boost mileage, will suffer, seriously suffer, with inordinately low CR.
Since turbos are incompatible with the Atkinson cycle (no "waste" gas/heat/energy to spin the turbo) the best thing Ford might do IMMHO is adopt the e/VVT-i system, include DFI and maybe revert back to the smaller ICE by using a SuperCharger driven by both the ICE and an inverter via a PSD (Power Split Device).
Run the engine in base Otto mode, 15:1 CR, for hwy cruising, Atkinson cycle mode, 12:1 CR, for moderate engine loading, and then Miller cycle mode, 8:1 CR, with SC intercooled boost for WOT.
Hard to know just where to start.
"..knocking on the doors of the Prius regarding MPG..."
No. NOT, NYET..!!
The Toyota HSD technique is now yet again one step ahead of Ford. The new HSD system makes use of the e/VVT-i ("Extended" VVT-i) in order to transition the engine from base Otto mode, 13:1 compression ratio, for light to moderate engine loads/loading, to Atkinson cycle mode, 10:1 effective CR, for higher levels of engine loading, FULLY filling the cylinder volume with A/F mixture.
Should Toyota happen to implement DFI with Atkinson (15:1 CR Otto mode, 12:1 CR Atkinson) before Ford gets around to it then they will be two steps ahead of Ford
TwinForce has now been relabeled EcoBoost by Ford marketing in order to FOOL the buying public into thinking these vehicles (SHO..??) are not the GAS-GUZZLING monstrosities of yesteryear.
Kudos to Ford for DFI, thumbs down for Ford for coupling it with a detuned/derated engine so a turbo could be used to attract the "boy-racer" mentality types.
In order to accommodate turbo boost, intercooled boost, the base/static compression must be reduced from what would otherwise be optimal to something very substantially lower. For a DFI engine that would mean a reduction from ~12:1 to at least 10:1. And if you REALLY want to take advantage of intercooled turbo boost 8:1 might be more reasonable.
So, hwy mileage, off-boost mileage, will suffer, seriously suffer, with inordinately low CR.
Since turbos are incompatible with the Atkinson cycle (no "waste" gas/heat/energy to spin the turbo) the best thing Ford might do IMMHO is adopt the e/VVT-i system, include DFI and maybe revert back to the smaller ICE by using a SuperCharger driven by both the ICE and an inverter via a PSD (Power Split Device).
Run the engine in base Otto mode, 15:1 CR, for hwy cruising, Atkinson cycle mode, 12:1 CR, for moderate engine loading, and then Miller cycle mode, 8:1 CR, with SC intercooled boost for WOT.
