My wife said go to it this year and show-off my '09 FEHL but I was upset over the rules last time in '07 of not providing a map of the course until a few minutes before the Challenge. Last year I did not attend thank God because a new set of rules set time limits even worst and only the insiders chose the right vehicles. As I saw the results it was plain to see who knew the rules before the MPG Challenge and the results look as if the local police was monitoring traffic violations of the competitors.

It seems there are some problems with the locals and I'm not going to be surprised by Eric myself again. I won my division hands down in '07 with Debbiekatz '05 FEH in the '07 MPG Challenge, what are the rules this year and if they change can we get a refund of this large increase in membership before we drive to Madison?

GaryG

 

GaryG,
Good points for discussion. In fact we spent a lot of time after the show with those who attended talking about options for MPG Challenge for 2009. We also discussed the MPG Challenge with past participants when we were events in Detroit and Chicago.

I can tell you that there will still be a time limit - we simply don't want anyone taking 5 hours to drive 30 miles on 45 mph roads. Having something that keeps track of your average speed on the course will certainly help you when you drive the course. Not sure what you mean by the insiders comments; Everyone got the same set of instructions at the same time at the drivers' meeting.

Anyway... there has been a lot of discussion about the possibility of releasing the course ahead of time. There are pros and cons of doing this and I am open to whatever makes sense. I would certainly like to hear your opinion (as well as others!) - let's talk about it off-line. I'm available to talk just about any time. I can call you, (just PM me with where and when to call) or you can call me at 608-729-4082.

The rules themselves are still being finalized. The membership fees cover more things than just the MPG Challenge, so I do not forsee a refund if the rules were changed for some reason. It is through your membership dollars and time volunteering at the event that makes the Hybridfest Green Drive Expo possible. Of course we also rely on our corporate sponsors to offset the expenses, so please patronize them as well.

We are certainly not trying to surprise anyone, so please ask any questions any time. This event is meant for you, the members, and we want to make it something that is a fun challenge for you, and not just another daily drive.

I hope you can make it this year. I am sure you'll have fun!

 

I'll probably never make it to HF just because of the distance from Phoenix, but I was surprised at the time limit that was imposed on last year's MPG challenge. My wife drives a minivan mostly on 45MPH roads, but uses the freeway on occasion. She does not hypermile in any way, shape, or form and usually drives 5-10 MPH above the speed limit. Our minivan has an overhead console with trip computer which includes an average speed display. I always reset this when refilling the tank and I can tell you her average speed has never been higher than 26.8MPH and is usually right around 25MPH. I think enforcing at most a 25MPH average would be reasonable and still prevent overly slow drivers. I drive mostly the same roads in my FEH and average around 19 or 20 MPH according to my SG.

 

Great information and feedback. Thanks for your opinions!

The previous route was about 30 miles, had 3 or 4 stoplights and the rest was in the country. Are there stoplights on your route? That certainly lowers the average speed in a hurry, especially if it is a short route.

Let's see at 20 mph average speed, that's about 1 hour and 30 minutes to cover the 30 miles.
At 25 mph average speed I think that works out to 1 hour and 12 minutes.

 

Hi, guys --

I understand the concept of a time limit sounds scary when you don't know what the course is going to look like. Gary, we did have a time limit in 2007, the year you competed, and that year it was a hard limit after which a driver would be DQ. The only year without a time limit was the first year, 2006, and we learned our lesson that year when someone finished with an average speed of around 13 mph. :-)

For those of you who didn't attend last year, let me go over what we did: Last year's (2008's) limit was a graduated scale, with a target time based on real-world testing of the course -- *not* based on posted speed limits -- with no time penalty for being within a certain amount of time of the target time, and with a 2% MPG penalty for every period of time that passed after that. There was a hard DQ limit, as there was the previous year.

As Eric said, there were very few stoplights. It didn't fall on high-traffic roads, and the bulk of the course was rural and suburban, with only a few minutes of "city" right at the start and end of the course.

We are certainly open to all of your ideas -- without HF attendees, we wouldn't have any reason to put together the show, and we want it to be the best it can be! Keep the comments coming, and we'll try to answer your questions and address your concerns. As Eric said, there's some talk about releasing the course early this year -- something we've never, ever done -- with two schools of thought on that:

1) Gives drivers a chance to run the course, no surprises.

2) Gives local drivers and drivers who can afford to come early an unfair advantage over drivers who can't arrive until the morning of the Challenge.

We love these discussions and welcome them with open arms. Keep your thoughts coming!

~Linda (Mistress of MPGs, Curator of the Challenge)

 

Hi Gary

It would be great to see you again - to see what you can do driving your 09FEH in the rolling hills of WI - & you & Rich & I can be the "3 Musketeers" of the FEH during the "Talk to a Hybrid Owner" sessions on Saturday

I said my say about 2008's MPG Challenge here:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...allenge&page=4

and we did have *quite* a discussion about it after HF2008 was over with (at Culver's, over dinner & frozen custard - which is even better at soothing bruised egos than ice cream, IMHO )

I honestly don't feel that I was badly treated, & I was disqualified for taking too long As I wrote (in that post or a later one), the event that Wayne organized in Indiana that spring was more like "NASCAR hypermiling", where the object was to do whatever the drivers could to get the best possible FE out of the vehicles they were driving; the MPG Challenge at HF (now HF/GDE) is more of a real-life competition, where the drivers have to deal with traffic situations like what we all deal with every day. Both types of events, & the mpg results they generate have their place, I think.

Eric & Linda, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the ideas offered during that discussion the possibility of handing out the course maps early enough that drivers could travel the route before the competition? That would make me thing *very* seriously about coming in on Thursday evening

 

ACKK!! How did I miss this before writing my previous post???

As far as the advantage in #2 - could drivers coming in Friday morning be scheduled later in the day's competition, & maybe get a chance to run the route early that day?

Just a thought...

 

Debbie,
I almost forgot about that loong thread. Gary, you might want to check it out to help jog your memory. Looks like I answered a lot of the same questions you are asking about again. And if you still aren't sure, let me call you, or you call me, o.k.?

My guess is if we hand out the maps on say...Monday?... there would be people who would come in town a bit early to run the course, which would be fine. My biggest worry is that the people that live along the route may get a bit inquisitive of the higher ratio of hybrid cars in their normal traffic.

I am still strongly encouraging navigators (sometimes I feel like we should require them). Everyone ignores me on this suggestion, though, it seems. Must be they don't want the extra weight. As good as we mark the course, people still get lost, which make us feel terrible.

All drivers are required to attend the mandatory 12:30 drivers' meeting, so not sure what difference scheduled times would make. I don't want anyone on the course after noon, who isn't officially doing their run. That would be very discourteous to their fellow competitors.

 

The time limit we had in the '07 MPG Challenge was more than enough for me. What about caused me a heart attack was handing me a map of the course for a few minutes and requiring me to give it back. It was like I was in a different Country when my plane landed and the only roads in Madison I had been on was the trip in the cab from the airport. The start of the course I would have had a hard time finding if it were not for a Prius owner at the hotel who gave me a ride there. The map looked like Chinese to me because I didn't know any of the roads and had never been within a 1000 miles from Madison in my life. I had never driven a hybrid or any car in rolling hills in my lifetime either, but I enjoyed it after I seen my results afterwards. I've lived in flat So. FL before I got my DL and I've always relied on the coastline and I-95 for my north/south bearings. At least the people that drove had some idea of where they were but I heard one person got lost 3 times during the '07 Challenge while I was there.

Just maybe those that got lost did not see the arrows on the course because they were trying to read the small map and drive for competition. There must be a way to send the course information with the package you guys send out and keep it from the locals along the route. Let us know if your getting bad feedback but is it possible the locals would be better off knowing the route and time of the Challenge to avoid driving in it?

Everything else was great at Hybridfest but I was concerned that the time limits and trying to read a map would spell a possible bad accident. I don't need the stress to compete in a Challenge like this and I would have never went to the '07 MPG Challenge if I knew how secret the route was going to be.

GaryG

 

Gary,

The locals Eric was referring to were not MPG Challenge competitors who live near here, but rather the people who live on these barely-traveled roads who suddenly find 40 cars going past their house on a Friday afternoon in July, and how they'd feel about having a number of those cars going by two, three, five times that morning, the day before, the day before that, etc.

And please do not feel like you are alone in a strange country -- everyone from out of town was in the same boat as you with regards to being in unfamiliar territory. Even people from around town laugh and tell me that they never knew those roads existed! And because we have always changed up the route every year, competing one year is not an advantage the next year except for how to get out of the starting blocks -- and this year, we're starting from a different location, so everyone's in the same "blind" boat all over again.

I really do suggest you call and speak with Eric about your other concerns.

~Linda (the Mistress of MPG, the Curator of the Challenge)