I just don't get why we don't offer high mpg cars like they do in Europe.

Also isn't the Tiguan the new name for a their slightly downscaled SUV?

 

As others have pointed out, the lack of MY2007 diesel VW passenger cars in the US market is because of the 2006-2007 nation-wide switch over from LSD (low sulfur diesel) to ULSD (ultra-low sulfur diesel) fuel. Apparently, not all refiners could guarantee the nation's fuel supply would be completely switched over to ULSD prior to the introduction of the MY2007 cars, in late 2006. The concern is that the higher levels of sulfur in the older type of fuel would wreck havoc with the new car's emissions control system.

VW increased production of the MY2006 TDI's, overstocking them at the end of 2006 in order to have an additional supply of the LSD-compatible cars to sell in early 2007, but these are long gone by now.

As regarding the issue of "pollution", there's EU standards, there's US EPA standards, and then there's the "ooh, that truck stinks, while sitting in traffic behind a semi" standard. None of these standards are, er, standard! Meaning that the US EPA is focussing on the control of nitrous oxides, while the EU is more focussed on global-warming gasses like CO2; therefore the two regions have different pollution standards that mandate differences in, not only hardware design and implementation in passenger diesel cars, but also mineral and bio-based diesel fuels. Whereas the average person with a sensitive nose is really reacting to particulates.

Personally, I like the smell of my 1998 Jetta TDI's exhaust, especially right after a synthetic oil change. Kinda smells sweet. Certainly more appealing than the rotten-egg, hydrogen sulfide smell from the tailpipes of gasoline cars with catalytic converters.

Of course, I won't mention acid rain....

 

We will have a fair number of fairly big vehicles-Suburbans,Tahoes,Pickups on the road in the USA for quite a while.The reason is that used big vehicles are cheap to buy.We are short of money-medical bills-so we sold the Pilot,Prizm,and bought a Suburban.We need-occasionally-a big vehicle to do home depot runs and to buy sell used items funiture, bikes,motorcycles) occasionally and to evacuate for the next hurricane(4 cats,one long legged dog,3 adults-river ridge is a suburb of NO).We can't do what is commonly suggested-rent-because everything is rented when a storm comes.
Many families can only afford one vehicle,and it has to be big enough to get everyone out of town.It isn't used much,so they take the 13mpg penalty everday(what I get in the city driving a 2wd Suburban).A small car-Corolla,Civic would get almost 2x(our Prizm got 23mpg year round city).
The solution for us is a $23000 Prius and a $2950 1998 Suburban.Unfortunately,Many folks can't afford a $27000 solution ,so they buy just the $3000-$5000 big used vehicle.
The problem with most small high tech-diesel,hybrid,electric- vehicles is the initial cost of about $25000+ out the door.For about $17000 out the door you can get a very good-Corolla,Civic,Fit,Focus,Scion-small vehicle that get 25 mpg city-for even less you can get an Aveo-maybe $11000 out the door.Unfortunately,thses vehicles can't haul 5 adults,animals+ a bunch of evac stuff.They can't haul furniture etc either.
Big cheap used vehicles are a better dollars and sense solution for many folks.They can afford-barely-the $100 fillups-because the initial cost of the vehicle-used-is so low.
Car pooling,P&G,and planning trips can make the big vehicles more efficient.The Suburban gets about 60% the mpg that the Prizm(corolla) did.3 people in it,is a lot more efficient than one in a civic.Unfortunately, it is hard to set up car pooling.With gas going up in cost,there will probably be better coordinated car pool efforts-folks could wait at bus stops,and flag down a pool vehicle.No doubt the lawyers,and insurers will toss a monkey wrench in.
Charlie
PS I like the small diesels in cars/minivans-GM makes a 40 mpg Zafira-TDI in Europe.It is a mini minivan like the Mazda 5-roughly 184" long.fairly tall-can carry 6 adults.Unfortunately, it would sell for a bit more than an Odyssey here in the USA.It would be a very sweet road trip vehicle,and an evac vehicle.I think it sells for about $30000 in Europe.GM knows it can't sell it for a profit here-yet.

 

I understand there's been a delay in the '2008' VW diesel cars' introduction into the US market, due to problems found during long-term emissions testing by the EPA. Engineering changes have been made, and retesting is underway. What I've read indicates fall of '08, which really makes it a 2009 model year introduction.

I'm glad my '98 Jetta TDI is still running.


~Joe

 

Quite an old thread but I'll jump in with my figures:

I've got a year 2000 VW Passat 1.9 TDi (115bhp), and my current tank mileage figures are 59MPG (imperial, US would be 48 or so?). Official figures are 48MPG combined cycle. That seems to compare quite well with the hybrid database figures at the top of the forum.

The Passat is quite a big vehicle (5 adults + plenty of luggage), smaller diesels such as the Polo BlueMotion have a much better MPG (72MPG official versus 48MPG official, imperial).

If I had been able to afford a new Polo I would have got one of those instead - careful driving would probably lead to an MPG of around 85 - 95 (imperial). The European official figures are pessimistic, and quite easy to beat if you are doing journeys of 10 miles or more, unlike the optimistic EPA figures which can be hard to beat.

My understanding of the particulate problem with diesels is that the EPA measures particulate output per gallon, not particulate output per mile - hence high MPG vehicles are hard to get round the tests, despite possibly having a lower particulate per mile than other cars. A cynic might suggest that is to protect Detroit from efficient imports...

I used to be able to tell whether the car ahead of me was a diesel or not by the smell, but in the last decade they've improved so much I can't smell the difference any more (no black smoke any more either). I think this is a combination of ultra-high pressure injection, and low-sulphur fuel. High-sulphur fuel is terrible stuff, and I'm glad to hear that it's being phased out over there. Pity it took so long...

Costs - my second-hand Passat cost £ 2400 ($4850?), and fuel costs £ 1.06 / litre (= $ 7.70 / US gallon). A petrol car would cost me half-again in fuel. I also prefer diesels to petrol cars because they last longer - I buy them at 150,000 miles and get rid of them at 250,000 miles. My petrol cars all stopped working at around 100,000 - 130,000 miles.

I would love to see a hybrid-diesel. The MPG would be amazing :-) (100+ imperial for a Polo-sized car?)


I think the pros and cons of diesel versus hybrid are as follows: (I don't claim to be right :-) ).

* Diesels are amazing when cruising at steady motorway speeds once the engine is hot.
* Hybrids are unbeatable in stop-and-go and urban traffic
* Diesels take a long time to warm up (typically 5 miles). MPG is poor up to that point.
* Diesels take a lot of energy to start/restart the engine (equivalent to idling for 30 seconds).

-- Edit:

I found this interesting review written with a hybrid-drivers/hypermiler's viewpoint on cleanmpg of a Honda Civic with a modern diesel engine. He managed over 100MPG using hypermiler techniques (just double-dutch to me, I have no idea what he's talking about). But > 100MPG is impressive.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6526

 

Our hybrids with two, out of production models, are automatic transmission vehicles. Is yours an automatic?

Bob Wilson

 

No, it's a 5-speed manual. There aren't many automatics on the road here in the UK (perhaps 10% or less). I drove an auto in California when I was working over there a decade ago, and I didn't like it (slow to react, and invariably in the wrong gear). Perhaps they've got better since (or perhaps the drivers know how to operate them properly unlike me :-) ).

I find the main variable in MPG in my journeys is the journey length - at 5 miles (when the engine reaches normal temps) I'm only doing 45mpg imperial (35mpg us). 10 miles = 50mpg, 20 miles = 55mpg, 50 miles = 60+mpg.

 

Thanks MikeMarsUK and welcome to the forum.

I used to repeat all those stereotypical liabilities of diesel cars, but after doing the research and conversing with owners I realize it's another choice for a good car which gets great mileage.
I've been a member over at the TDI club for quite a while and participate in their mileage competition.

However, I continue to see many false negative hybrid stereotypes repeated such as:

* Diesels have a significant edge over hybrids regarding highway economy and hybrids don't much benefit on the open highway vs regular gasser.

As for the life of the vehicle, (Speaking for my own), at 111,000 miles starts/runs/drives/ just as if new off the lot. If you search 2nd hand auto websites such as Autotrader.com you'll find pages and pages of good Honda's, especially Toyota's with +200K miles, and I've seen a many over 300K miles and a couple approaching 500K.

I've owned my own Civic hybrid new since Jan 2004 and spent the first two years learing hypermiling, with a record of 1,003 miles/74.9MPG calculated in Aug 2006 for a single tank.
I used almost every fringe whack-oh techniques under nearly perfect driving conditions to make my record.

My average for that time was about 66mpg.

I've been driving more normally since then, my commute have changed- 50 miles all freeway into Atlanta using only moderate economy techniques and average mid-upper 50's. Cold, but no snow or ice.
My car has the CVT (Auto transmission)

Although there are a few experiments with hybrid busses and some military equipment, I think the real clear diesel advantage is in heavy vehciles. (Semi trucks etc)

Please don't think I'm trashing TDI's or other diesel cars- both technologies are great in their application.

Hybrid has good advantage on the open road over regular gassers: Just as diesel does.

-Steve

 

Except for the plug-ins, that matches how the Toyota hybrids work. Short trips are killers but once warmed up, they are marvelous.

Bob Wilson

 

I read somewhere that some of the Prius models have a vacumn flask to store hot coolant in when the engine is off, which seems like an excellent idea. Does it make a difference?