Hybrid Diesels
#11
02-27-2008, 02:11 PM
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Location: Benicia California
Posts: 56
Re: Hybrid Diesels
Diesels have some hurdles to overcome with consumer acceptance here in the US. I think part of the problem is that a lot of us are old enough to remember the previous attempts to put a small diesel engine in autos and light trucks. The "diesel bunny" (VW Rabbit) back in the 80s was pretty bad and so were a lot of GM's diesels that that company put in light trucks. The concept is sound enough, but only the heavy duty engines manufactured for the big rigs seem to be really worth a **** and that seems to hold pretty much true even today from what I've heard from current diesel owners. These folks are forever going on about how great their diesels are and then in the next sentence they launch into a litany of apologies for "the few" repairs their vehicles have had.
And then there are issues with the "smell" (a complaint from a former Mercedes diesel owner who now owns a Prius). The inconvenience of purchasing fuel, the waiting times in cold temps at start up/glow plugs, etc. No one wants to mess with that s**t except certain guys who are diehards for the technology.
And then there are issues with the "smell" (a complaint from a former Mercedes diesel owner who now owns a Prius). The inconvenience of purchasing fuel, the waiting times in cold temps at start up/glow plugs, etc. No one wants to mess with that s**t except certain guys who are diehards for the technology.
#12
02-28-2008, 07:36 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver Area, CO
Posts: 155
Re: Hybrid Diesels
They switched because of the price of fuel. Do that here and we would switch too. We would also stop demanding vehicles with so much power. And size.
So if you can figure out a way to change the fuel prices, then let everyone know. People have been trying to figure out how to do that for years.
#13
03-10-2008, 01:12 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 121
Re: Hybrid Diesels
An update: it seems PSA abandons the hybrid diesel for now. (Link in french but you get the picture. Title says: "rest in piece".)
http://www.leblogauto.com/2008/02/ps...-hybrides.html
http://www.leblogauto.com/2008/02/ps...-hybrides.html
#14
03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Re: Hybrid Diesels
Not a very good translation, here is their source:
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish...%2f4689125.htm
It looks like the absence of a subsidy for the development killed the program.
Bob Wilson
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish...%2f4689125.htm
It looks like the absence of a subsidy for the development killed the program.
Bob Wilson
#15
04-02-2008, 03:31 AM
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 38
Re: Hybrid Diesels
An update: it seems PSA abandons the hybrid diesel for now. (Link in french but you get the picture. Title says: "rest in piece".)
http://www.car-stuff.com
http://www.car-stuff.com
#16
04-09-2008, 09:03 AM
Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15
Re: Hybrid Diesels
Diesels have some hurdles to overcome with consumer acceptance here in the US. I think part of the problem is that a lot of us are old enough to remember the previous attempts to put a small diesel engine in autos and light trucks. The "diesel bunny" (VW Rabbit) back in the 80s was pretty bad and so were a lot of GM's diesels that that company put in light trucks. The concept is sound enough, but only the heavy duty engines manufactured for the big rigs seem to be really worth a **** and that seems to hold pretty much true even today from what I've heard from current diesel owners. These folks are forever going on about how great their diesels are and then in the next sentence they launch into a litany of apologies for "the few" repairs their vehicles have had.
And then there are issues with the "smell" (a complaint from a former Mercedes diesel owner who now owns a Prius). The inconvenience of purchasing fuel, the waiting times in cold temps at start up/glow plugs, etc. No one wants to mess with that s**t except certain guys who are diehards for the technology.
And then there are issues with the "smell" (a complaint from a former Mercedes diesel owner who now owns a Prius). The inconvenience of purchasing fuel, the waiting times in cold temps at start up/glow plugs, etc. No one wants to mess with that s**t except certain guys who are diehards for the technology.
I drove an 85 VW Golf Diesel for 6 years and averaged ~44mpg. Yes it was loud and shaked like a washing machine during cold startups but diesels have greater improved over the past couple decades due to advanced electronic ignition systems. The only electrical devices my 85 Golf diesel used were glow plugs and a fuel solenoid used to shut the engine off. I had very few maintenance issues with the engine. Engine wise, I only had to replace the glow plus a couple times and replace the head gasket and that was over the couse of over 200k miles. Reliability of the rest of the car was a different story that I won't get into...to sum it up I'll never own a vw again.
TDI's are much quieter, glow plugs turn on immediately when the drivers door is opened. Hopefully US drivers will get out of their comfort zone and give diesels a try again....they've come a long way since the 'diesel bunny' of the 80's.
#17
04-13-2008, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southwestern Pa
Posts: 1,747
Re: Hybrid Diesels
They switched because of the price of fuel. Do that here and we would switch too. We would also stop demanding vehicles with so much power. And size.
So if you can figure out a way to change the fuel prices, then let everyone know. People have been trying to figure out how to do that for years.
So if you can figure out a way to change the fuel prices, then let everyone know. People have been trying to figure out how to do that for years.
Note: the EU CO2 emmission standard is based upon a driving test that is simpler in form, easier to score higher fuel efficiency rating than the EPA test conducted in this country.
#18
04-22-2008, 09:03 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 208
Re: Hybrid Diesels
Articles in the London Times might also explain the loss of interest in Hybrid Diesels.
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle3552994.ece
The 520d is 30% more expensive than the Prius and is rated within 85% of the fuel economy. Not to mention their test showed the diesel besting the Prius.
I have rented several diesels on vacations to Europe. Most were vans (Fiats!!), but the only BMW was a 530td back in 2002. We observed ~35MPG (US) driving it 1400 miles. FWIW, that was in Ireland which doesn't have much in terms of highways. So that was mostly backroad driving by US standards.
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle3552994.ece
The 520d is 30% more expensive than the Prius and is rated within 85% of the fuel economy. Not to mention their test showed the diesel besting the Prius.
I have rented several diesels on vacations to Europe. Most were vans (Fiats!!), but the only BMW was a 530td back in 2002. We observed ~35MPG (US) driving it 1400 miles. FWIW, that was in Ireland which doesn't have much in terms of highways. So that was mostly backroad driving by US standards.
#19
04-22-2008, 10:24 AM
Energy Independence!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 310
Re: Hybrid Diesels
Actually a quite hilarious translation:
"PSA Peugeot Citroen altered in-depth its project of diesel hybrid car, to make it élitiste. The manufacturer even claqué the door of ex-Arranges Industrial Innovation"
"the next hybrid vehicles diesel will not be any more the "diesels of Mr. All-the-World"
"the play is from now on large open between this solution or the lithium-ion"
"PSA Peugeot Citroen thus preferred to throw sponge to continue to develop only a vehicle"
Funny translations aside, what one can gather from this article was that Peugeot was expecting a substantial French government subsidy. When the the European Union regulators got a wind of this, they immediately objected, (most likely because the automakers from other EU countries complained of an unfair competitive advantage) and threatened to investigate.
Peugeot, faced with litigation from the Brussels bureaucreats , decided to "throw the sponge" on a mass marketed diesel-hybrid, and focus instead on a luxury D-H car.
"PSA Peugeot Citroen altered in-depth its project of diesel hybrid car, to make it élitiste. The manufacturer even claqué the door of ex-Arranges Industrial Innovation"
"the next hybrid vehicles diesel will not be any more the "diesels of Mr. All-the-World"
"the play is from now on large open between this solution or the lithium-ion"
"PSA Peugeot Citroen thus preferred to throw sponge to continue to develop only a vehicle"
Funny translations aside, what one can gather from this article was that Peugeot was expecting a substantial French government subsidy. When the the European Union regulators got a wind of this, they immediately objected, (most likely because the automakers from other EU countries complained of an unfair competitive advantage) and threatened to investigate.
Peugeot, faced with litigation from the Brussels bureaucreats , decided to "throw the sponge" on a mass marketed diesel-hybrid, and focus instead on a luxury D-H car.
#20
04-22-2008, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SC
Posts: 208
Re: Hybrid Diesels
FWIW, it appears that there are a number of diesel hybrid concept cars. Two notable ones are a 70 MPG VW Rabbit/Golf and a 40 MPG BMW X-5.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/06/auto...ion=2008030715
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...TO01/803040452
The CNN article is an interesting read. Can't tell if the author dislikes diesels, hybrids or both. He seems to point out the negatives for each.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/06/auto...ion=2008030715
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...TO01/803040452
The CNN article is an interesting read. Can't tell if the author dislikes diesels, hybrids or both. He seems to point out the negatives for each.
