Dear all,

This site is great! I have a quick question - is there a way to mod the battery of the TCH (and convertor possibly) to get the full 105KW/141HP from the electric motor ? Not to drive EV mode but to get total combined power with the gas engine to get close to 300HP?

Any thoughts, limits etc?

I know the NiMH battery Cell may not provide more than 140amps so the way maybe to add more cells (e.g. 600 totals at 1.2v nominal) such that with the same current our of the battery but 3x higher voltage, you will get the power provided to drove the 105KW monster motor (for about 2-3 minutes if same cell type/capacity is used). yes, I know it will increase the volue and weight taken by the battery...

Thanks for any thoughts....

 

Looks to me like toyota is using the electric engine at 44 hp. This may be due to cooling and lasting ability. The ice is 156 hp, plus the 44 electric which ends up at 200 hp total.

Found a article on the 2012 TCH which mentions a reworked battery pack now at 245 volts. My guess is, that they may have lowered the voltage and went with slightly larger cells. I remember the basic NiMh packs were between a C & D size cell although it they were in a square module at around 7.2 or 7.7 volt each. I bet the new packs are using a larger D size cell in the modules for more amps.

I like the idea of the 2012 now using a electric water pump to save on friction and now the engine is belt-less. It also includes a new variable speed oil-pump.

This and more information from this site below.

http://www.hybridcars.com/compacts-s...-overview.html

 

The battry is what limitsed the power to the electrical motor at 44HP not cooling. Check spec for the 2011 and before TCH on Toyota.com site as well as google for such info (incl even at Edmunds). Hence my post on how to get more power to the electrical motor. The current floowing out of each cell is limited factor. A 105KW needs 460Amps at a nominal 244 volts the battery has. It only provide 1/3 of this or so at around 160amps. Assuming effective capacity to run the motor is between 80% charrged to 20% charrged that leaves you with 60% or about 30 seconds the 1.6KWH battery (nominal capacity) can run the electric motor at 105KW full power anyway. For 1/3 of this, you get 1.5 minutes or so.

The new 2012 TCH has many improvments, i like it and that is why I ordered one. Not just the changes you mentioned, the synergy system has been improved, no separate 12v aux battery, more space in the trunk, etc etc. in addition to general 2012 Camry model changes inside and out.

To get at the same 160AM current (the limit of how much you can get out of the battery before dammage as it still has internal resistance although much lower than what you can buy as a AA NiMH cell), you need use more cells at higher voltage. I.e. 3x number of celols for around 700volts battery. That will have around 5KWH capacity as well as with the same current provide the fully power needed for the 105KW to get a combined 300HP almost (maybe less of course, I will take 280HP too, with huge toruqe to add).

The use of two electrical engines in addition to the gas, in the Synergy system is nice.

Compare the specs for the Volt, including elecytrical engine power (at 149HP a bit more than TCH but Volt is way heavier and has only 4 seats...), 16KWH battery (I do not care about driving a longer distance with the plug in battery here, but only about getting temp more power at 300HP out of the system, when needed. You do not need 300HP all the time.... just say to pass that slow pasky big semi truck ...).

5KWH is doable, but it will need a different DC-DC conveter etc. - check out the mods for Prius for such. So question is, anything for the TCH? Maybe not, as the TCH was not common around here and this will change before someone will build a solution as I descrived for the new TCH.

But, the new 2012 Camry trims and options and pricing, lead me to believe only 2 configurations make sense. The base L (or LE at most), and the XLE hybrid. Anything else has less value and makes no sense. For example, if one hates the moonroof (as I do) and wants an XLE, for very small diff and many extra you can get the XLE Hybrid with convinience package and base entune/nav (no JBL as that will need the leather seats which need the moonroof package). The SE even with the V6 does not have dual zone A/C - climate control... very strange.... (XLE has also the humidity sensor... ). So, all these little extras Toyota added for the XLE Hybrid (at base it comes with more features than the XLE non hybrid base.. that will require the latter to get the convinience option pack) make me think they really try to push buyers to either one of these two configes by nickel and dime them with features and options and conditions for such.

The mod for the Prius is different, as its mainly intended for more EV range as plug in (i know few companies who make such kits), but not for more combined power.

The only possible issue maybe the mechanical strenght of the transmission to support at the same time 300HP combined when all engine/motors are at full power (4500RPMs for 105KW and 156HP at 5600RPMs for the gas).

Anyone out there whom is an expert and can answer?

 

like I said before - there's M series Infinity Hybrid with 360 HP combined.

thought "let's get NOS for MG2" is a great idea, betcha, PSD will bring this effort to nothing. Plus all the other electronics that control everything.

ha-ha.. just had vision of your TCH taking off at intersection like Vin Diesel's muscle car in Fast and Furious. That'd have been something...

 

You miss the point. Infinity M has a monster 3.5L V6 (with 302HP on its own see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinit..._.282012.2B.29 ) with a relatively tiny 50KW electric motor. Its more a for show car than the carefully optimized new Camry Hybrid stands for as the combined power is 360HP, or 58HP more from electric motor, with a 1.3KWH LiIn battery. At EPA 27/32 MPGs its nothing I will consider "economical" and at over $50K cost its not the type of car I consider buying. The art is to be able to get both fuel econony and temoral power yet keep cost under $30K with the features Camry XLE Hybrid has now.

I recall some company (maybe Honda? not sure) tried to use the Hybrid concept for performance (temp extra power) rather than for fuel economy but this did not work well with buyers (forgot the reference and cannot find now). However, the TCH has a potential to do well both the fuel exonomy and get the 300HP, and yet keep costs under control. Now that would be the thing to do for gen 8 Camry Hybrid.

Now if you want a monster camry see this: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...orsepower.html How is that 728HP Camry going to compare with the tiny 360HP Infinity M...? :-)

 

With the PSD used as a "summing machine", analog computer, you cannot increase HP on just one side of the equation. In this case the ICE HP would have to be increased an equal percentage.

 

The only logical approach to increasing HP "equally", percentage wise, on both sides of the equation would be to convert the ICE from Atkinson cycle to miller cycle "on teh fly" using an SC.

Use another "PSD" to allow SC drive inputs, "summed" inputs, from both the ICE and an AC synchonous motor/inverter. Eliminate the throttle plate and use the variability of the positive displacement SC to regulate/control the ICE output torque level.

Oh, almost forgot....make it RWD to prevent Trac from activating continuously to dethrottle the engine.

 

 

What does Atkinson cycle has to do with the power? The gas gets 156HP already, what are you referring to? RWD? Huh? You make no sense sorry.

 

Abysmally, the VSC/Trac system in the Camry would be activating continuously in order to prevent loss of directional control due to driven wheel slip/spin. The Infinity, being RWD, could make use of the entire HP capability during HARD acceleration since directional control would not be threatened.


You obviously do not know the Camry. you can turn tracion off... Has nothing to do with RWD or anything you mention sorry.,