How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
#1
03-15-2008, 04:38 AM
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How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
A nice read for a Saturday morning...
Read more at hybridcars.com
How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
Published August 22, 2005
For almost five years, I have operated three Toyota Priuses as a Yellow Cab - with no failures. The first Prius, a 2001 model, was put on the road Nov. 1, 2000, and acquired 332,000 kms [approx. 200,000 miles] in 25 months. The components that did wear out were not hybrid related components.
The battery system on the Prius is a modular system made of six 1.2-volt cells connected in series to form one module. There are a total of 38 modules in the classic Prius [1996-2003] and 28 modules in the current model. The system is designed to maintain a charge state between 40\% - 80\% in order to minimize memory build up in the batteries. Having had the opportunity to talk with Alain Lee, product training consultant for the Prius division at Toyota Canada, he stated the life expectance of the batteries would be a minimum of 15 years in normal use with the nickel metal hydride battery. This is based on 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per/year. This claim is based on the information gathered from my 2001 Prius, which went back to Japan to be disassembled for technical information after 25 months use as a taxi, in exchange I received a 2003 Prius. The current model has an even more efficient battery - with additional connection points at the lower part of the cells. The internal resistance has been reduced by this improvement. The bottom line is that the new battery pack is more efficient in every respect from size, power, and life expectancy.
The cost the batteries to replace for the classic model including labour would be $5,000.00 cdn if you had to replace the whole pack. Because it's modular, you would only replace defective cells within the module. The classic model has a total of 228 cells in 38 modules and the current model has 168 cells. The cost of an individual cell would be approx. $17.00 cdn. Toyota has yet to release a price for battery replacement on the current model. As more hybrids are built, the cost will drop. The current manufacturer of the batteries is Panasonic....
Published August 22, 2005
For almost five years, I have operated three Toyota Priuses as a Yellow Cab - with no failures. The first Prius, a 2001 model, was put on the road Nov. 1, 2000, and acquired 332,000 kms [approx. 200,000 miles] in 25 months. The components that did wear out were not hybrid related components.
The battery system on the Prius is a modular system made of six 1.2-volt cells connected in series to form one module. There are a total of 38 modules in the classic Prius [1996-2003] and 28 modules in the current model. The system is designed to maintain a charge state between 40\% - 80\% in order to minimize memory build up in the batteries. Having had the opportunity to talk with Alain Lee, product training consultant for the Prius division at Toyota Canada, he stated the life expectance of the batteries would be a minimum of 15 years in normal use with the nickel metal hydride battery. This is based on 20,000 kms or 12,000 miles per/year. This claim is based on the information gathered from my 2001 Prius, which went back to Japan to be disassembled for technical information after 25 months use as a taxi, in exchange I received a 2003 Prius. The current model has an even more efficient battery - with additional connection points at the lower part of the cells. The internal resistance has been reduced by this improvement. The bottom line is that the new battery pack is more efficient in every respect from size, power, and life expectancy.
The cost the batteries to replace for the classic model including labour would be $5,000.00 cdn if you had to replace the whole pack. Because it's modular, you would only replace defective cells within the module. The classic model has a total of 228 cells in 38 modules and the current model has 168 cells. The cost of an individual cell would be approx. $17.00 cdn. Toyota has yet to release a price for battery replacement on the current model. As more hybrids are built, the cost will drop. The current manufacturer of the batteries is Panasonic....
#3
03-15-2008, 09:22 AM
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Re: How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
A nice read for a Saturday morning...
Read more at hybridcars.com
Read more at hybridcars.com
Toyota is going the Li-Ion batteries for the next Gen hyprids but to date they do not meet Toyota's standards in terms of reliability so the Li-Ion implementation has been set back 2 years. Disclaimer: the source on that is my dealer who in the past has been fairly reliable.
YMMV
#4
03-15-2008, 09:49 AM
MPG Centurion
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
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Re: How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
I get asked this at least once a month. My reply is:
Q: How long to batteries last.
A: Between 15-20 years or 300-500k miles, which ever comes first.
Q: WTF?!?
A: Well they are waiting for one of the batteries to fail so they can adjust the model
Q: None have failed?
A: Not enough to make an accurate statistical model.
I find if I start at unbelievable and work my way back I get a more attentive listener than working the other way round.
11011011
Q: How long to batteries last.
A: Between 15-20 years or 300-500k miles, which ever comes first.
Q: WTF?!?
A: Well they are waiting for one of the batteries to fail so they can adjust the model
Q: None have failed?
A: Not enough to make an accurate statistical model.
I find if I start at unbelievable and work my way back I get a more attentive listener than working the other way round.
11011011
#5
03-15-2008, 10:29 AM
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Posts: 558
Re: How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
I also read similar things, however I know of at least 2 batteries failures claimed by owners at Yahoo Prius group, regardless, battery failure is very rare no matter how you look at it.
Also, batteries are build from modules, however, as far as I know in case of failure Toyota does not repair them, but replaces the whole unit. It could be liability of working inside with components under high voltage, but I never heard of battery pack being "repaired", in the few cases of problem the whole pack was replaced. Li-ion batteries are very sensitive for under/over charge, require even smaller operating range (usable % of full capacity) than 40%-80% range used in NIMH and still have smaller number of charge/discharge cycles. If my memory is correct, they were going to use them in 2008 model, but now it's postponed by at least 2 years, due to all the problems that need to be fixed.
Also, batteries are build from modules, however, as far as I know in case of failure Toyota does not repair them, but replaces the whole unit. It could be liability of working inside with components under high voltage, but I never heard of battery pack being "repaired", in the few cases of problem the whole pack was replaced. Li-ion batteries are very sensitive for under/over charge, require even smaller operating range (usable % of full capacity) than 40%-80% range used in NIMH and still have smaller number of charge/discharge cycles. If my memory is correct, they were going to use them in 2008 model, but now it's postponed by at least 2 years, due to all the problems that need to be fixed.
Furthermore (and this is hearsay) I read somewhere that no Toyota Hybrid's traction battery has failed in the US (and possibly non-US as well). If true it would speak volumes for their reliability.
Toyota is going the Li-Ion batteries for the next Gen hyprids but to date they do not meet Toyota's standards in terms of reliability so the Li-Ion implementation has been set back 2 years. Disclaimer: the source on that is my dealer who in the past has been fairly reliable.
YMMV
Toyota is going the Li-Ion batteries for the next Gen hyprids but to date they do not meet Toyota's standards in terms of reliability so the Li-Ion implementation has been set back 2 years. Disclaimer: the source on that is my dealer who in the past has been fairly reliable.
YMMV
#7
03-15-2008, 04:45 PM
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Re: How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
Just think how long all your batteries that are NI-MH last? They last one heck of a lot longer than NI-CAD batteries do. Plus they are set up in series and probably have a greater life expectancy that way. I'm not worried about the battery issue. By the time the batteries get old enough to fail, they will have the LI-ION batteries out nad perfected for use in hybrids!! The stated warrenty is 150,000 miles, from what i remember.
#9
03-17-2008, 01:33 AM
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Re: How Long Do Hybrid Batteries Last?
Two considerations on battery life:
1) Toyota warranties the battery for 10 years & 150,000 miles for the Prius, Camry etc (for a good number for their sales). So they would be killed by warranty costs if 95%+ of the battery didn't last that long.
2) Prius batteries sell for well under $1000 on eBay. This is because many more Prii are being totaled than need replacement batteries. Another way of looking at this - You are more likely to be in a severe car accident than having your battery fail!
Yikes!
1) Toyota warranties the battery for 10 years & 150,000 miles for the Prius, Camry etc (for a good number for their sales). So they would be killed by warranty costs if 95%+ of the battery didn't last that long.
2) Prius batteries sell for well under $1000 on eBay. This is because many more Prii are being totaled than need replacement batteries. Another way of looking at this - You are more likely to be in a severe car accident than having your battery fail!
Yikes!
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