I am not an admin here (although I am at other sites), but was asked to be one, to which I politely declined due to time constraints, so I am posting this from the point of view of a fellow member. Unfortunately, this forum doesn't seem to have active admins or mods to police the threads, so we need to do it ourselves...

Many forums are destroyed due to negative or bashing posts. They can be quickly overrun with Windows vs. Mac; Conservative vs. Liberal; Internet Explorer vs. Firefox or even Yankees vs. Red Sox arguments. Trust me, I've seen perfectly nice helpful forums turn into mud slinging dungeons if you ask a question and refer to an attribute that exists on a competing product (for example, try going to a Mac forum and ask how come OS X doesn't have full screen like XP has, or go to a Windows forum and tell them that Macs are better...you'll be amazed at the vitriol that will ensue).

In any event, the TCH forum has, for the most part, been extremely respectful, mature and positive in the postings. However, the recent Toyota accelerator recall and Prius braking issues have caused a fair amount of 'brand vs. brand' posting (with posts such as "... at least my XYZ doesn't kill people..." etc.)
This is a very slippery slope that can easily and quickly destroy the good nature and camaraderie that we've enjoyed here for a few years now. Tempers flare as accusations fly back and forth. This should be a help forum where owners can learn how best to use, maintain and care for their vehicle. It shouldn't be a bash feast where we need to defend one corporation's management, service department, choice of parts suppliers or even the location from where the steel used in manufacturing comes from.

It's easy to start negative postings and once started, difficult to stop, so I'd like to ask all here the following:

• If you see a negative or 'bash' post, ignore it without the need to 'strike back' and escalate the issue. Chances are the other poster is 'venting' and we'll all see it as such and not put too much weight behind their comments.
• If someone bash posts (for example, pointing out that "... my Bently doesn't have unintended acceleration and puts Toyota's to shame...", just ignore the post, it's amazing how quickly a thread will die down if just let them vent and not feel the need to reply. Of course, we all know that the Bently only gets 10 MPG, so we all know who's got the better car!
• If the post is out of line, off topic, disrespectful or in any way offensive, click the alert button and hopefully a mod or admin will attent to the post. However, if you fight fire with fire, the forum will quickly degenerate.
• Let's all post about the TCH and not compare it to problems that other brands might have had or are having. Forums are destroyed by these posts
• Let's focus on our car and not weaknesses or problems with other cars. As soon as you attack another brand, some owner will see it and start to defend it by attacking ours. We all know the Yugo was a bomb, let's not get the Yugo fanatics up in arms and have them bash our beloved TCHs
• Remember, all brands have problems, we're here to help members deal with the issues, not to argue over which is better.

People view their products as extensions of themselves (like their family). If you attack a person's choice of product, they think you are attacking them and will defend themselves accordingly.
Thanks for hearing me out.
I enjoy this place and view it as one of the few forums that haven't been overrun with argumentative postings and I'd like to keep it that way, if we can. I can't count the number of forums i've stopped visiting once they've degenerated in this manner.

Thanks!

 

...lest I be accused of hypocrisy, I admit I have been guilty, at times, of posting confrontational subjects.

 

Somebody needed to say it

Thank you, Larry


That said, I should add that I think that opinions re. head-to-head objective comparison of pluses and minuses of THC vs other products should be fair game.

 

if i was the owner of an audi 2000 during the 80's when it had some acceleration problems, i would have the same sentiment esp if a toyota owner will say that our cars are reliable than the germans. but the blind belief by car writers and magazine have swallowed what toyota promoted that now are embarassed by their pronouncement if brand invincibility. at least consumers will realize that this so called quality is just a biased perception of these writers. it evens the playing field for US and foreign brands. I am an import fan and just now tried what US had to offer having owned lexus, honda mercedes and mitsu brands.

 

I think you bring up two separate issues, quality and invincibility.
With respect to the quality issue, the good name and reputation that the foreign owned companies (Honda, Toyota, Hyundai) that has been generated over the last decade was not from by blind faith on the part of a few magazine writers, but from word of mouth on the part of owners and consumers. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "I use XYZ and I love it! You should get one" This comment was not related to cars, but all consumer products (computers, etc.).
People who (unfortunately) suffered from the poor quality issues of the 1970's and 1980's US owned auto companies' products were very pleasantly pleased by the switch to products from foreign owned companies. The fact that the foreign owned brands were less expensive was a bonus.
For us (I switched in 1986) we are part of a 'lost generation' for the auto industry. We've become loyal to brands and are hard pressed to switch. I might add I switched from XP to OS X for the same reason and will be hard pressed to switch back.
Word of mouth has easily surpassed the "Motor Trend Car of the Year", etc. designation as an important factor in consumer decisions. In fact, I think few make major decisions on the brand because of an article, rather they will use the articles to add to their comfort level. If an article praises or pans a product, that might sway the buyer...slightly, but a satisfied friend or associate has equal if not greater power (IMHO).
On the other hand, a massive negative media campaign can seriously damage a brand's reputation. I am not sure what long term effect the current one will cause. I don't think the Ford tire nor rollover issue was as pervasive nor powerfully negative as the way the media is destroying Toyota's reputation. I'm sure some consumers will be part of a 'lost generation' and never come back. We will see on this one.

Now as far as invincibility, I think it's absurd to assume any brand is beyond possible fault. I've read thousands of articles on quality and value, but nowhere did it refer to invincibility. Even in Rain Man we all laughed at the notion that Qantas is the only safe airline. Problems are a fact of life and this issue can (and probably will) affect other brands. I'm sure all the other brands are working overtime researching their accelerator pedals to see if they have problems. With all the publicity garnered, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) stats are going to rise. Not everyone who had unintended acceleration (UA) reported it to the NHTSA, but that will be changing. I'm sure others, if not all, brands will find themselves on the UA Wall of Shame.

Final point, globalization. All products rely on subcontractors and suppliers. Their locations can be anywhere on the globe. The distinction between an import and domestic vehicle is now blurred to the point of it being rendered meaningless. Cars might be assembled in one location, but the majority of the parts are from another location. Presumably the 'domestic' content of a US owned car company could be less than the same figure for a foreign owned company. As such I think it unfair to talk in terms of a foreign car. Many Toyota's are assembled in the US by US workers. Similarly, US owned companies have foreign sources for their parts. Toyota is also a public company with many US owners. The executives are located in Japan. So what? Who cares?
I'm happy that US employees earned money manufacturing my car. In fact, it's likely that the popularity of my car has caused a swell of employment and the local economy in Kentucky, where my car was built. I'm happy to support the American economy. If a few dollars flow to the executives Japan and then back to the US share owners, that's great, too.
But I am not going to fall for the macho attitude that it's either a US or non-US car. That doesn't exist anymore. I wonder how much money from the purchase of a US owned car flows to foreign sources. I don't care...it's not important.

I found this article from 2007 (obviously a bit dated)...

 

I think the media attention to toyota is "about time they look into it." US brands were unfairly treated to these media stereotypes when they say that the US brand of vehicles is an inferior product which may have some merit but it usually is a general statement about particular brands. Having owned a lexus, there was no recall on that particular vehicle(2003 IS300) which made me respect the brand. when the first SC400 came, it was a very well made car, shiny aluminum engine accents, nice interior(pure leather) but noticed these genuine leather cracking and discoloring after 3 years(midwest car so no sun effect of socal) compared to the 10 year old MB. having bought a honda pilot also the same year(2003) I was surprised when they made a model wide recall about the transmission and it was just a small blip in the news because as you know consumer reports have given it 5 stars even if the model was in its first generation, very new in the market. but these recalls are just cosmetic, maintenance issues, reliability etc which can always be fixed without the consumer knowing(2010 priuses). my point is , word of mouth can be due to somebody's reading the consumer reports without actually owning the vehicle. the fix for the accelerator pedal is very simple that I think it is not the cause of the problem. after seeing the fix video, it is just freeing the pedal from getting stuck which if you put your foot underneath it and lift the pedal would have the same effect but not in the accidents that caused the deaths. there is more to the accelerator fix, it can be an electrical glitch, etc. btw, love the lexus brand but just got a new made in arlington tx escalade hybrid.

 

Possibly, but I'm referring to the buzz created amongst owners.
When I shop for a car (or any consumer product, for that matter) I ask what people own and use. I don't pay much attention to the magazines (unless I want to find out a comparison of trunk space or head room).
The magazines are written by 20 something year olds who used the car (or product) for a week or two.
When I call my friend who owns a gas station for a car recommendation, I get a lot more detailed information as to the quality of the car, as he sees the cars and talks with the owners, as well as doing the repairs, etc.
I am well aware that the quality gap between US owned and foreign owned brands has just about completely disappeared.

 

haroldo.....Is that remark about the Bently only getting 10 miles per gallon and the "who has the better car" remark an example, or a well baited hook to get someone like me to "bite"....

 

An attempt at humor. My friend has one (convertible) and I remind him about his poor mileage frequently. Were it nor for the low MPG, I would have bought one.