Wow. Winter weather reeks havoc on my mpg. We have had really cold temps in the single digits and I am under 30 mpg!!

Now before all you hypermilers start judging me as a gas hog, yes I have my tires pumped up to 40 psi. I am not a jack rabbit driver (never had a speeding ticket), but don't drive like a grandma. I try to get up to speed fairly quickly so I can glide as much as possible. I try to anticipate traffic ahead, lights, etc. but still I am less than 30 mpg. I even use Top Tier gas. But most of my trips are 5-8 miles or less, with little highway driving, and that seems to be what kills me.

Needless to say, I am somewhat disappointed. I realize the 40 city 38 hwy EPA estimate on the sticker was under ideal conditions, but to be almost 25% lower than that -- even after trying to drive reasonably frugally, makes me think Toyota is as good at marketing as they are engineering.

 

Friend recently retired and was back in my office.
He has a Camry Hybrid and has never seen this or any other forum
He doesn't use any hypermiling or any other special driving techniques.
He told me that when he was in Florida he was getting >40 MPG.
Obviously, in cold NJ he wasn't getting anywhere near that
Wait till it warms up and post back with your mileage

 

Does anyone know what temperature thermostat the TCH has. If it's a 160, maybe a 180 would be better. Has anyone explored this technically or legally?

Chuck

 

LEAKYTCH: FWIW, Toyota just advertises (markets) what the EPA decides the gas mileage ratings should be...they are just using numbers that they are allowed to use....nothing more, nothing less... Also, FWIW, all 2008 models have been re-evaluated by the EPA, and I beleieve I read somewhere that on average, they took the 2007 numbers down about 25%....hmmm....

 

5-7 mile trips is what is killing you. The engine in the winter has to warm up before it will shut down for it to provide heat in th cabin. 28 mpg is great for your drive. Go buy a regular 4 banger camry and drive it the same way and I bet you don't even get 20 mpg.

 

cjacobus1 — As I recall, the thermostat that controls water flow to the radiator opens at 82 degrees C (~180 degrees F). For in-town winter driving, water temperatures range from 50-70 degrees C, and so it frequently stays closed the whole time — consequently, the hot water circulates only to the cabin heater and not to the radiator.

Stan

 

I'm actually surprised you get as much as 28mpg on such short trips, it takes me 3-6 miles just to warm up the engine in very cold weather, so your engine is running open loop, very rich most of the time with no shutdown at stop lights, no electric mode and no other hybrid benefits most of the time, except maybe for Atkinson cycle engine. I'm sure your older, non hybrid car would have much lower mpg as well. I remember driving my older Honda Accord, to get 28 mpg would require open highway driving, in summer, not much traffic and not going too fast over speed limit either , otherwise I would get less than 28. As far as EPA ratings, those are done under lab conditions, exactly the same for every car tested. As far as real life conditions, those arguments " I'm not getting EPA ratings" are little long in a tooth already. First of all, even in Alaska there are warm days in summer, January and February are 2 coldest months of the year now, with the worst mpg for all cars, some people will always get under EPA ratings, some people will get over, just accept it, even I got as much as 50 mpg and as low as 20 mpg for the same driver and car (short trips, longer driving even things out) and current EPA rating for TCH is 34 MPG to make everybody happy and no , there is no guarantee you get that either, it should be average, some people will get more some will get less. For example today is very cold and my 30 mile work commute which usually gives me 38-42 mpg, I'm not sure if I got much over 30 mpg either. The good thing is I stay home when it's cold with bare minimum driving, it's the warmer weather when I drive the most and judging by traffic, everybody does the same, so I get best mpg when I drive the most.

 

I have a similar commute to work in Minnesota… 6 miles, about 10 minutes on city streets. In the summer I can easily get 36 mpg commuting but also struggle to get 28 to 30 when it is very cold. On the other hand, highway is still respectable, got 35 mpg yesterday on a long trip cruising at 70, while temperatures barely got above 0 Fahrenheit. That is down from about 39 mpg for the same trip in warm weather. The very cold weather has some negative impact even after the engine is warmed up, but really knocks the mileage down during the longer warm-up period.

 

Pete4 — In sub-freezing weather, the longest I've seen my TCH stay "open-loop" upon cold start-up is ~30 s (measured by ScanGaugeII). So, only a very small portion of the warm-up is actually open-loop. Of course, the ICE will not reach its maximum efficiency until it's fully warmed up, but it will be operating closed-loop most of the time.

Stan

 

One hypermiler "trick" I've been using that may make a real difference is when the car is really cold, I shut down at lights I know will last more than a couple of seconds. I hit the power button a couple of times with my foot off the brake to get the radio and blinker (and heat if needed) running while the car's off, which also makes it a quicker start time when it's time to move. I figure I can warm up just fine while moving, I don't want to get 0 mpg for several minutes while sitting at lights. That 0 mpg while idling fast during warmup will kill the mileage. I don't know how much I save, but overall (shutoff, "full hybrid" mode, and often different route) my mileage seems to be up this winter. Last Feb I know my calculated FE was around 28-29 MPG for the tank during the coldest week. But it's been pretty **** chilly here lately and still usually seeing some pretty good FE numbers for my commutes. I do choose to hit the interstates some days when it's so cold the car's still not warmed up by the time I hit the highway (usually just stay on it for a couple of miles), but otherwise still taking off-highway commute mostly. I admit it makes it hard to tell the true FE for a trip when you keep clearing the trip FE calculation until it's fully warmed up, but my tank numbers have been decent so far. Still waiting to see how the winter ends up over all compared to last year.