my first post to this form - my "icebreaker" speech - if you know what I mean, you're likely a current or former TM.
anyway-
live in Memphis area now. Born IL; 11 years in Dallas; last 4 until August in south central PA/western MD area-worked for MAMSI in Frederick MD until UHC bought the company.
Long time Mazda fanatic, mostly with rotary engines; owned about 8 Mazda's over the years; 5 Rx-7s, 2Miatae,1 Protege. Have had 4 Subaru's- first was a 73 DL. Ever since that car have been generally interested in MPG and tried to get as much as possible with every car. Got about 32 in the 73 Subbie. Forgot - also have had 3 diesel powered vehicles: 84 Ford Escort wagon w/a Mazda diesel (could get 40+MPG); a 82 Isuzu P'up; and a 99 VW New Beetle (high miles on tank, 723, averaged 42MPG).
Currently have a 92 Mazda Miata and a 2004 Mazda RX-8. The Miata (and the 90 I used to have) gets about 30-32MPG; the RX-8 is lucky to get 21MPG, averages about 20.5.

As much as I love driving the RX-8, I'm considering giving a hefty loss to the depreciation gods and getting a HCH.
First test drive in one was yesterday (12/12/05)-a 2003 5speed w/38K. Tonight I drove a 2006 Civic Hybrid - CVT of course.
Used to carpool with a co-worker(Dan) in MD that has a auto Civic EX (about 2003 model), so I'm familiar with the Civic; had a 87 Accord 5sp for a while too.
Impressive. I like the updates the 2006 received over the previous gen HCH, although I'm not that familiar. But to name a few - the steering wheel controls for audio/cruise - learned to love those in the 8; the side curtain airbags to complement for the full array of airbags; a bit more power; a bit more safety features; the dash/instruments; a fresh style update; and one Dan could appreciate-full time display of the radio station.
My concerns: safety in an accident (electrical?); cost of replacement battery offsetting fuel savings.
My biggest question right now: I was considering TRYING to buy one B4 the end of 2005 because the $2000 deduction gets reduced in 2006. But I read something about a tax savings causing folks planning to get one soon to delay their purchases until 1/02/06. Why? What is coming up that is better than the $2000 deduction? Thanks!

If I can find a buyer for the RX-8 sometime soon, the HCH purchase will become a likelihood!
Daniel

 

1)Electrical: In the event of a crash the battery will disconnect from the system. There is no safety issue with it. Consider this. how much gasoline are you carrying, how much acid is in a lead/acid battery. Both of these are more dangerous than the hybrid battery.

2) replacement cost of a battery. Yes, that is a concern. So far there have been reports of older insights (2000 models I think) needing battery replacements. From what I'm hearing honda is covering most of the cost. Honda did an update to their software which seems to make the battery not swing its state as much. They may have learned something from the insight, but its still an open question. The cost of replacement is 5K I think. Maybe as low as 3K (don't remember exactly) so you can factor in if it will eat the cost of gas savings.

3) Taxes. The taxes change from a deductable to a credit in 2006. Credits are good because they subtract directly from your taxes on a 1 for 1 bases.

I would say think twice if the only reason you are getting a hybrid is to save money on gas. You can learn a lot here that will help you get better fuel economy in any car. A lot of the fuel economy is due to the driver putting in the effort. If you just want to buy a car and drive it like you always do then chances are your FE is going to be low and you will be dissapointed. Though I hear the 06 civic hybrid seems to be less sensitve than the previous gen civic hybrids.

If you like the 06 civic hybrid would be worth it if it got say 38 mpg then it will probably be a good choice and you will be happy. If you would be dissapointed if it got less then 42 then you may not be happy. It will certainly do much more, but how much more will depend on the effort you put in.

 

I was in a similar situation, driving a Vette and wanting a hybrid. I was going to trade the Vette in on a Civic hybrid but ended up keeping both. They are very different cars just as the 8 and the new HCH are very different as well. Surely the HCH will get better mileage but I doubt the gas savings alone would justify the purchase. Have you looked at the database? The new HCH has bounced between 45 and 49 mpg average, right now it is at 46. If you are going to lead foot it around town, missing your 8 then you will get less. If you drive average you will get 46 and if you baby it and use our tricks you could get much more. You should estimate the way you plan to drive and how many miles you drive and do some math on how much you would save on gas. I'll rough out a quick estimate for you assuming 20mpg for your Mazda, assuming 46 for the Honda, and assuming 12,000 miles a year with gas at $2.50 a gallon. According to my assumptions you are currently using 600 gallons of gas a year at a cost of $1500.00. If you purchased the Honda you would use 261 gallons at a cost of $652.50 for a savings of $847.5 per year. If you drive less or if gas goes down you savings would be less. If you drive more or if gas costs more your savings would be more.

 

.. And if your main motivation is just a tendency to change cars fairly often to drive something a bit different than what you have become accustomed to, then your chances of disappointment increase a bit more.

IMHO, the people that are most delighted with hybrids (techno-mechano geeks excluded, but not forgotten) are those who view increased fuel economy as worth more than dollars saved at the pump.

I'm not trying to scare you away from hybrids -- I think they are briliant. Just want you to be happy with your decision a couple of years later.

btw, when I was a kid, I was enthralled by the rotary Mazda engine. Hearing a 'whirr', rather than loud farting, was an epiphany. Course, my Prius does one step better -- no noise AT ALL (at least some of the time).

 

Hi Daniel; Say we are somewhat neighbors. Ever heard of Nashville Tn.? Joke Well I don't live there, but now that I have your Full Attention I do live in Franklin, Tn. and that is like 25 miles So. of Nashville. I had a friend of mine that use to live in Memphis and I use to meet him on Friday nights and we would take off to Tunica to the Casinos. We always Won.

Well so much for BS. Back to car stuff. I sold a 2005 S60R Volvo with all kinds of after market performance add ons and then bought a 2005 Honda Civic while waiting around for Honda to Introduce the 2006 HCH ll and finally they did and I now have one on order and (Hopefully) will take delivery the 1st of Jan. 06. I mention this to you simply to point out that I have had a Bunch and I do mean a Bunch of high performance cars over the yrs. and if a person is tired of spending way to much money for 1st off the vehicle, insurance, and lets not forget the (93-Octane) fuel bill. If your sick of all that then I think you will like the 06 HCH ll as a welcome change. If you want to step on it I think it has enough power to get out of harms way and if you slow down sometimes and take it a little easy then, guess what you have the bonus of , OMG alot better FE (Fuel-Ecomony). I just personally have got sick of all the expense of those kinds of cars and everyone looking to get in my pocket-book.

Well; Good-Luck with your decision on this and if you do go ahead with the 06 HCH ll, please don't forget us here at (GreenHybrid) and let us know how it turns out.

Terry

A-Tenn. Guy

 

Welcome Dan,

I'm a former "rotorhead" too, mine was an older REPU, still have a Vette though (pics in share section under non-hybrid).

You'll love the HCH, especially the second gen. A lot of us first gen HCH owners feel left out due to all the hoopla, but it's an incredible car (I have yet to see one in person yet)

Anyway, Welcome, the HCH purchase is one you won't regret. Welcome to the light side. The hardest part will be changing driving habits to maximize FE (Fuel Economy).

 

Not too familiar with the Hybrid but I am researching and hping that I can learn alot in this forum/discussion.

 

Just wanted to say thanks.
I could go into a lot more detail, but I try hard not to as it detracts from my points quite often.
I drive the RX-8 in a lot of commuter traffic. So I don't often get to drive it like "I own it" or like I'd like, or nearly like it's "special purpose in life". They (rotary) like to be driven hard. If I'm somewhere where I generally won't hurt anyone if I make mistakes (the Gap [tailofthedragon.com] or a track I'll go all out but otherwise I don't go WOT much. Reminds me:
what does "EV" mean in discussions here. I figured out FE and P&G on my own.
I had my Mazda Protege DX for about 7 years & 130K+ miles. Averaged about 32MPG. I anticipate I'd enjoy the HCH II greatly. I considered the Prius when the 2nd gen came out, and revisited that idea today. BUT I think they are too proud of them (Toyota) -one at a local dealer was $27K+. I don't need all those extras, and it appears you do pay extra from some things that are standard on the HCH II. So I'm leaning towards the HCH II, and through the dealer in OK unless I can find someone closer who can take a bit off MSRP.
I created a spreadsheet w/ various price increments, based on my miles driven daily, comparing the gas cost of the RX-8 to the LX Civic to the HCH II. Gas price increments of .25/gal; used 21MPG on the 8, 37 on the LX, 50 on the HCH. I know, YMMV (your mileage may vary) - and I may not be able to get 50. But I usually get at or above the EPA highway estimate on cars that are not rotaries.
Anyway... I'll keep reading.
IF anyone knows for certain that the tax credit is going to happen for 2006 please advise. Otherwise I'll keep watching for news on that as well!
thanks again

 

EV= Electric Vehicle

 

The tax credit is going to happen. It's just a question of exactly how much it will be. I found this link in another post:

http://www.hybridcars.com/tax-deductions-credits.html

and for the HCH II CVT they estimate a credit of $2100 for next year, which is far better than a deduction of $2000, which is what it is this year. There are also links to official IRS sites etc.