4 part show on Discovery, marathon tonight starting at 7. Also playing all 4 again Saturday at 3. The extremes, the body, the fuel, the brain. I saw the first and 3rd episodes, pretty interesting stuff. They talk about hydrogen, biofuels, electrics, hybrids, etc. thought you all would be interested.

 

It was an interesting show, but not very informative. They are still hanging their hat on the hydrogen cars. Hybrids were such a small part of the show, I would not even call it an also mentioned.

 

Yes, I'll have to agree.
Seems 99% of their future is with hydrogen and the skate board chassis, and make it sound very exciting and promising.

I'll choose to get excited only if there is some kind of hydrogen production technology breakthrough. Until then I consider it as feasable as an anti-matter car.

 

When you figure that soon enough a fuel cell car will be able to go well over 100 miles per kg and still be a normal looking normal body materials car.. it doesnt boggle the mind to think that they can make h2 cheap enough to fuel that sucker cheap enough for alot of people to use.

And no matter where you are its likely there is a feedstock energy source to make h2 cheap enough to keep the cost per mile down lower then fossil fuels.. by 2015-2020 timeframe.

And as for the fuel cell car itself... its only getting cheaper while "normal cars" wont. It realy wont take much more then normal grindwork to get a fuel cell car cheaper then a gas powered one by 2020 or so.

As for bev... when will it reach 250 bucks per kwh? Will it realy reach that? And how many kwh will many POPULAR cars need to actualy SELL? 50? 100? 150? 400? Even 20 kwh is getting too spendy even at 250 bucks per kwh. And in 2025 how BIG will a 50-100 kwh pack be? A fuel cell stack will be TINY. The fuel tank? .. around normal fuel tank size....

So am I gona buy a 25000 buck yogu with 4 full sized fridges jammed into it or am I gona buy a 20 grand CAR that is better in EVERY WAY then a current car? One that is cheaper to run too?

 

A fuel cell has two long-term problems:

1. The catalyst that works is Platinum (also the catalyst in the present exhaust systems). It is very expensive today and continues to get more expensive.
2. Using air as the oxygen source tends to shorten the life of the catalyst due to poisoning by pollutants. Adding pure oxygen tanks fixes this at the cost of more weight, cost and making refilling more expensive and dangerous.

These are both difficult problem to solve and may NEVER be successfully eliminated.Yes, when the NiMh patent expires in 2015My choice is about 30kwh as at 200 watt-hours/mile that's 150 miles which is enough for most commuting and shopping uses. I would also have provisions for a Honda generator in the trunk as a "range extender" (They can run on CNG)

JeffD

 

Actualy the amount of platinum used has gone down alot over the years. Currently the cost of a fuel cell if mass produced in 500k amounts would be around 60-70 bucks a kw and yes that includes the platinum and everything. By 2015 they expext that to be 30 bucks and concidering the progress so far recently id expect they will nail that goal.

As for your other concern that is part of the overall lifespan issue and is being delt with rather well resulting in much longer real world lifespans of current gen fuel cell stacks. If the newer high temp membranes and thingies are any indication we will be seeing alot less issues with contamination and such in the next 3-5 years.

 

I see future car and i can say that it looks awesome. I see lots of cars in the recent time but this is special one. The look of this car is an outstanding and i am sure that it is fuel efficient as well.