Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

Toyota launched Crown Mild Hybrid in August 2001.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/jp/news/01/Dec/nt01_169.html
http://toyota.jp/Showroom/All_toyota...ism/index.html

So, GM is about 5 years behind.
But, it's better than nothing.

Ken@Japan

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

I wonder if the GM hybrid will be able to convert to plug-in, like the Prius? That would be a big advantage if it can run at any speed under electric, then all that's really needed is a battery upgrade and possibly some electronic mods.

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

I believe the GM Mild Hybrid can't run solely by electric.

Ken@Japan

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

CORRECT

Peace,

Martin

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

I guess I'm a "stealth mode" snob... [:-)] Actually, I'd like *any* technology that cut pollution and could deliver 40+MPG.

I'm hard on the "Big 3" because I *am* a proud American and it's been frustrating to see them push huge land-yachts instead of something truly 21st century.

It just scares the hell out of me that GM calls their idle-stop mechanism a "hybrid". It dilutes the meaning, and gives them an opportunity to disparage the technology if their version doesn't sell.

Oh... and I think it *was* smart for Ford to get help from Toyota in designing the Ford Escape Hybrid.
















:) ;)

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

Mazda is introducing idle-stop and they aren't calling it hybrid.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005...to_introd.html

But I really think it aught to be a mandatory feature within a couple years, like catalytic converters, it just makes so much sense to implement something simple and effective fleet-wide.

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

I cannot find the reference anymore, but a couple of years ago I read from Toyota that they intend to add auto-stop to all their vehicles. If memory serves me, they thought it would improve FE by about 5%.

I think auto-stop is wonderful, from a quality of life perspective. As a crown-jewel of the auto industry's ability to adapt to an era of expensive and periodically scarce gasoline, it is pathetic. It is the equivalent of introducing a large enough cup-holder for the driver's morning coffee. Very thoughtful attention to detail, but please do not call it automotive evolution; that would be an insult to the engineers with substantial ideas.

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

Once again, I know I'm saying the same thing over and over, but if they would just continue to raise CAFE, we'll see things like auto-stop become standard on all models just so the manufacturers can achieve ever-increasing fuel economy. Federal regulations have gotten tougher for smog/polution every year, why haven't the regs for fuel economy gotten any tougher in the last 25 years?

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

Federal regulations have been led by the nose by California with respect to smog. If the states succeed in their court case to be allowed to regulate CO2, expect rapid advancement in fleet MPG requirements.

As it is, the domestic manufacturers have agreed to a higher fleet MPG for cars sold to Canada, and a 42 MPG requirement is slated for Europe in 2010ish -- so the world economy is pulling them towards at least having high MPG cars in their stable of offerings. They would of course love to continue the current domestic truck/SUV market, because of the profits. If the US increased substantially the national fleet MPG CAFE, increasing pressure would develop to increase the MPG of the gas guzzlers, cutting into their profits. That is where the lobbying is fighting strongest against at the moment.

As a hedge, GM (and presumably Ford and Chrysler) are looking for ways to just stay ahead of whatever emerging CAFE increases they might eventually agree to, with tech that is as cheap and minimaly progressive as possible, so that consumer spending patterns will stay the course with as minimal as possible disruption to profits. Enter mild hybrids.

It is unfortunate that lobbying, marketing, and spin is cheaper than technological progress. Or maybe not, and GM and its ilk have forgotten how to be something better.

Re: GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids"
 

I read on the Toyota website that they also plan on implenting a mile-hybrid system designated as THS-M. This is going to be used on a luxury car called a Crown. It's a 48 volt system that provides idle-stop and AC power while at a stop. It will be intersting to see how it compares to GM's BAS mild hybrid.