Hi all,
I thought it best to start a new thread for this one (originally under "oil changes"). I got a response from an email I sent to this company about using their product as an alternative for the now discontinued Mobil 0w-20 oil. I must admit that I was not prepared for the shock I was about to receive. I have no idea if these people have the data to back up what was stated in the email but I now have concerns of my own. I'm so happy that I purchased the extended warranty (somthing I never do) when I purchased my car, and yet, something in the back of my mind told me to get the manual vs CVT. So far, the complaints about the CVT have been related to a faulty EGR valve and some needed a CVT fluid change to straighten out their problem but complete CVT failure has been nonexistent up till now (at least on this forum). OK enough babble

(posted on oil change thread)
I was searching the web for alternatives to 0w-20 when I came across this site...

http://www.synlube.com/

I though I'd throw this on the board to see what you good people make of it. I know, I know....looks to good to be true (used and trusted by NASA). Just wondering if anyone here has heard of this company or used their products in the past. I for one wouldn't mind getting 15 years/150,000 miles out of my oil (good for the environment as well). Be sure to take a look at the Q & A's..

http://www.synlube.com/faq.htm

..chuck full of information.

Update: I sent this company an email inquiring about compatibility of their product and the HCH. I'll post it when I get a response from them.

(the email I sent)
Hello,
I like to say first off that I found your site very educational.
I own a 2004 Honda Civic hybrid with 8,000 miles. I've had two oil changes up till now (first at 3k then another at 8k) using Mobil 1 0w-20 synthetic oil. I found out through a hybrid forum I belong to that Mobil discontinued the 0w-20 line. Although the my Honda manual states that 5w-20 is acceptable, use of 0w-20 is highly recommended. If you wouldn't mind, I like to ask you the following questions:

1) Which Synlube grade would you recommend for my hybrid and price per quart? (the car calls for 4 quarts)
2) Do you carry a MicroGlass filter for this particular car and how often would that filter have to be changed?
3) Is Synlube approved or recognized by Honda as an acceptable oil for their engines so not to void their warranty? (was told by a Honda tech to use nothing but the what the manual calls for)
4) Your site states that car makers that only offer 36,000 mile warranties (Honda in my case) only offer this because they know the engines will only last to about 100.000 miles, is this the case with the Honda Civic Hybrid engine?
5) The site also states that Synlube is geared as a heaver oil (compared to 0w-20), will this have any effect on my particular engine which was specially designed for the system it uses?
6) My Civic hybrid also has a CVT (transmission), will Synlube transmission fluid work this type of system. (again, Honda techs told me to use the specified fluid on the 30,000 mile intervals).
7) Is Synlube safe with the seals used in this particular engine?

If you can add anything else I might have forgotten to ask (specs, facts, information pertaining to Civic hybrid systems), I would greatly appreciate it. I'm hoping to post my questions and your answers on the forum to further educate Civic hybrid owners (and to prevent repetitive emails to you with similar questions). I hope your product is the answer to our oil needs and I can wait for your response to this email.

Thanks in advance,
Glen









(the reponse)





J20ns = $24.00 + TriMagnet $12.00, Filter you change every 36,000 miles and the magnet you re-use on the new oil filter.


3) Is SynLube approved or recognized by Honda as an acceptable oil for their engines so not to void their warranty? (was told by a Honda tech to use nothing but the what the manual calls for)
Honda does not have any oil approvals, that is not their business, and you have NO performance or durability warranty except on the batteries (which cost $4,200 to replace) and on defects in Materials or workmanship = i.e. if they did something wrong when they built the car.


By a federal warranty act (see www.ftc.gov) if ANY manufacturer that sells any item in USA that costs more than $15.00 bases their warranty on the use of any specific product they MUST give you this product (and its installation) ABSOLUTELY FREE OF CHARGE = Honda does not do that, but companies like BMW, MINI, etc. do, so in such case you have to use their oil, but HONDA does not do FREE maintenance so even if NONE is ever performed by the emission performance warranty they MUST fix you car FREE what ever it takes, so that it does not pollute the air, but if it just quits running they have ABSOLUTELY NO OBLIGATION to ever fix it, if it is not "defect" in manufacture. Some companies "offer'" what they call "courtesy repairs" just to keep their customers happy, but HONDA quit doing that about 12 years ago.

We had customers with leaking oil pressure switches, a very very common problem for last 5 years especially on Canadian made cars, and about 60% of them were charged as much as $200 for the repair of obviously defective part, and have been told that it is not covered by warranty, same goes for CV joint boots that cost upwards of $120 to replace as they claim it is "service part" when they crack at mileage as low as 18,000 miles, etc.

Honda dealers are overrun with warranty work and in California it takes an average of three weeks to get an appointment, so less work they can do the happier they are, one reason is that 45% of Honda owners somehow are convinced that only Honda dealer can touch their car (the highest service retention in USA, as most companies are below 20% and some as low as 2%).

SO as warranty is concerned currently HONDA is not very good about fixing anything.
They do not want to pay for it, and dealers do not have time to do it.

But if they tell you (dealer or the MFG.) that they will void any warranty, have them put it in writing and we will sue them in Federal court and you will get $50,000 from us.


4) Your site states that car makers that only offer 36,000 mile warranties (Honda in my case) only offer this because they know the engines will only last to about 100.000 miles, is this the case with the Honda Civic Hybrid engine?
Depending on where you live and if you have the PZEV version or not your warranty may be as low as 3 years or 36,000 miles to as high as 150,000 miles and 15 years if you are in California with PZEV AT Hybrid. But read the "warranty" and see what is actually covered, most of it is just the EMISSION system, and ABSOLUTELY nothing else, with the exception of batteries and that is ONLY in California as well.



5) The site also states that SynLube is geared as a heaver oil (compared to 0w-20), will this have any effect on my particular engine which was specially designed for the system it uses?




The 0W-40 oil is specifically intended in PZEV engines that were originally designed to use 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil, but since the wear factor is much lower in theory the engine would mechanically last 300% longer. The maximum design life for PZEV engine that is certified to California standard USING LOW SULFUR FUEL, is 15 years or 150,000 miles.



6) My Civic hybrid also has a CVT (transmission), will SynLube transmission fluid work this type of system. (again, Honda techs told me to use their brand instead on the 30,000 mile intervals).



No leave it alone as it may not even survive the warranty, CTV transmissions just about last only 30,000 miles or so, they self destruct and cost $4,500 to $7,000 to fix, best advice trade you car in the day your warranty on the transmission expires. You change the fluid even with the HONDA stuff and they will blame you for the transmission failure, at best you will get about 45,000 miles. There are thousands of SUBARU Justys, MINIS and Saturns with failed CVT - Saturn VUE with CVT depreciates $5,000 more than manual shift, and there is good reason for it, it is great, it works fine, but it does not last, FORD is already finding that on the new 500, the number one warranty problem the CVT. So if you want you car for keeps, this is NOT the one !!! And Muranos with CVT are having problems after 18 to 24 months and NISSAN cannot keep up with replacing them for free.



7) Is SynLube safe with the seals used in this particular engine?


It is chemically inert so as long as the seals are mechanically sound no problems typically the valve guide seals fail first at about 120,000 to 150,000 miles and high oil consumption is the result (as high as quart every 500 miles) - New Honda engine goes about 16,000 miles before you need to add SynLube ADD oil, and few people did not add any in between filter changes (30,000 to 40,000 miles).



Honda is fine car, but Hybrid is still not cost effective and you are the test driver for the very expensive experiment with hope that when the batteries die they will not cost as much as today. There is not enough data on HONDA, but for TOYOTA Prius the break even for long term ownership would be at $10.00 per gallon of fuel -- when compared to ECHO which has the same engine (but with more power).

On HONDA your premium is about $4,000 to $5,000 depending on what good deal you got, but considering the CVT curse, that may be as much as twice that over the long run, and $10,000 buys a lot of gasoline even at $3.00 per gallon !!!

The SynKit for your car is $165.00 includes shipping by UPS Ground.

Hope that helps

Syn-cerely

Miro Kefurt
http://www.synlube.com/

I guess time will tell if this is true and I'm hoping he's wrong. I love my car and hope Honda has built me something that will last. This email is not cast in stone....but I know my extended warranty is.

 

I find it more than a little disturbing that a niche company that seems to only make a little-known oil purports to know so much about CVTs and battery packs, and exactly how much they cost to replace and exactly when they will die on you. Not 'might'- 'will' die. They also seem to know about the grand conspiracy for all our engines to die when the 6th digit rolls on the odometer.

I would hope they put as much effort into the chemical engineering of their product as they do into bashing the engineering efforts of others in completely different fields.

 

Actually, they don't make any oil, they buy the best synthetic oils they can find and blend them together.

 

Call me old fashion, but I think I will bite the bullet and use Honda oil. I really loved using Mobil 1. I have used it in all my cars and (knock on wood) every one of them run like a champ. The milage on my ' O3 HCH CVT really shot up after my first oil change with Mobil 1 0w20. (sportin' 67,000 now) As soon as Pennzoil gets it in gear and starts distributing their "hybrid oil", I'll probably start using that, as long as it's not 10 bucks a quart. I'm really not the gambling type. If, for some reason, something happens to the engine, I don't want to give Honda any excuse not to honor their warranty. I can just hear it now, "Someone put the wrong kind of oil in here. Sorry, we can't help you."

Howard

 

Better safe than sorry, of course, but no car company can deny warranty for using oil which is SUPERIOR to the recommended oil. And Mobil 1 is superior in every way to stock Honda oil, and even a third year law student could prove that in court, if required...

 

I just got off the phone with Shell, the makers of Pennzoil. Their technical people have given their new "hybrid oil" the thumbs up and the product should be starting to show up in stores any minute. He said that Wal-Mart is very interested in the oil and will probably start stocking it first. He said that when Mobil 1 discontinued their 0w20 they got very excited and jumped all over it like white on rice. So, keep your eyes open.

Howard

 

Synlubes answers sound fishy to me. Even if the oil didn't break down, gasoline would eventually contaminate the oil. I think this happens because of blowby (combustion charge blowing past the piston ring and into the sump). Usually gas will burn off once the oil reached operating temperatures, but if somebody only drives short distances, this will not occur.

Also, the "TriMagnet" may not be too beneficial in a Civic since the block, heads and pistons are aluminum. Hence, there's no ferrous metal flakes for magnet to capture.

 

Synlube writes: "...CTV transmissions just about last only 30,000 miles or so, they self destruct and cost $4,500 to $7,000 to fix, best advice trade you car in the day your warranty on the transmission expires."
How come I'm approaching 70,000 miles without a single problem? According to them, should of "done blowed up" by now!!!

Howard

 

I've only got 34K on mine. I guess its time to trade up to the 06 civic hybrid I wonder if my wife will buy that argument....

 

Exactly correct on all points. Anyone who tries this oil should take an oil sample every 2500 miles and send it in for an oil analysis to some place like Blackstone Labs for analysis. The longest I've heard of anyone's oil surviving and still being considered good working order was 17,000 miles, and that was in a Chevy Camaro that burned about a half quart every 1000 miles or something, thus it was getting a fresh new half quart regularly. They also replaced the filter every 5000 miles or something which was apparently very beneficial as well. No way is ANY oil going to last you 150,000 miles and still be in any sort of decent shape. The absolute most I've heard of anyone making it was something like 55,000 miles, at which point the engine seized and was totally destroyed on every possible bearing surface.