I'm leaning toward buying an HCH II but could also go the EX route. Thanks to this forum I understand that short trips hurt gas milage. My most common trips are 5-10 minutes trips where the speed limit is 45 part of the way and 30 part of the way.

Does this driving pattern hurt hybrid milage disproportionately compared to a non-hybrid? For example if this type of driving reduced HCH II mpg by X% would it reduce an EX by a similar percent, or does it hit hybrids extra hard?

 

My guess is that short trips DO impact hybrids more than non-hybrids due to the fact that the way the hybrids gain the higher milage figures is through the auto-stop and assist and the auto-stop at least won't kick in until the car is warmed up.

 

Since your comparing two Civics I would be willing to guess that they would both be effected by about the same percentage. The Hybrid version will have a advantage if your route is hilly. I'll go further and suggest that there are a number of driving conditions or environmental aspects which have relatively the same effect on all cars, Hybrid or not.
* Vehicle Speed, Wind Speed, Air temperature, Precipitation, Trip Distance.

Some vehicles with better aerodynamics will do better at higher speeds. You can use warm air modifications or parking heaters in colder climates. You probably can't do nothing 'bout the rain or snow.

The trip Distance is my favorite aspect to discuss, even hybrids are 100% gas fueled so there is simply no way to avoid the warm up cycle and it's effects on mileage. Furthermore there's no way to avoid using gas for those short trips such as your, or is there? This is where the potential ability to plug in and use electricity for such short trip could really make substantial differences! Check out http://www.eaa-phev.org for potential conversion options to add this ability to existing hybrids. We're still waiting for production plug in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) from the manufacturers...

 

I'd go with the hybrid. I don't know where you live... the temperature, general hilliness, and traffic situation in your area might affect my answer... But, when I'm home from school (south FL... flat and not too cold in winter, though it is terribly hot in summer and the AC can be a pig) my most frequent trip is to my boyfriend's house: 7 miles away, speed limits 35, 40 and 45, and 5 traffic lights. I find that is ideal for my car. My hybrid is happiest going 40 or just under. It doesn't take very long for autostop to start kicking in, I'd say less than a mile. Plus with the 06 hybrid you'd have that cool EV mode at about 35mph.

 

Not disproportionately. You need to figure that you will get at least 20-25% better mileage in the hybrid, given the same conditions and driving style. Some empirical data:

My commute:
- in my old Civic Si 2.0L, 24-25 mpg, versus my HCH, 42-44 mpg.

My daughter's college super-short hilly 'commute':
- in her non-hybrid Civic 21-24 mpg, versus my HCH 38-40 mpg

Consumer Reports city loop:
- non-hybrid Civic, 19 mpg, versus hybrid Civic, 26 mpg.

That last one, from CR, is probably the best example (in relative terms) for your comparison.

Given your description, your commute is similar to my own. It depends on how many stop signs and lights you have, but on my lousy commute, my results are:

- In optimal conditions, trying very hard: 46 mpg
- In normal conditions, 42-44 mpg
- Driving entirely without regard for mileage, 38-42 mpg

Hope that helps, and good luck with your decision.

 

Before you make a big decision assuming that short trips will not pay off in a hybrid, keep this in mind. With the hybrid you will always get better mpg compared to similar driving in the non-hybrid version of the car. Short trips, long trips, whatever. It's still a good thing.

As for city driving, actually I find that since most of my driving is in my 180 miles a day of highway commuting, when I make short trips around town my mpg actually goes up because it's the stop-and-go and low speed driving that takes more advantage of the hybrid technology than flat-out highway driving.

Also, my commuting partner has the 03 regular civic, I have the 04 hybrid. Other than the hybrid difference our cars are nearly identical. I average, long term over 20k miles, 44 mpg. He, driving basically the same way on the same route at the same times of day in the same conditions, averages between 35-38 per tank, occasionally hitting 40. We have a pretty nice way of comparing the cars directly because we trade off driving the same route together every day, so we both know exactly what the cars have gone through. So my conclusion is thatn in our conditions under largely highway milesn I do about 20% better in the hybrid than I would in a regular civic.

 

This might be a situation the Prius would be your best choice, because it does better on short commutes and stop-and-go trips. I'm on my 4th Honda, but the IMA prefers highway driving, something you don't do a lot of based on what you have said.

Hope we can get some Prius input in this thread....

 

I was gonna mention Prius too. :-)

My commutes are mostly highway, and that was a big factor in my decision to go with HCH instead of Prius. If my needs were mostly city Prius would have been an obvious choice.

 

Combustion generates heat, in all cars.
This heats up the engine block, but only to a certain equalibrium temp.
Heating up the block consumes some of the energy in gas.
So during warm-up that energy can't go into moving the car.

When that temp has been reached more of the energy in the gas can go into moving the car.

This all has nothing to do with the hybrid system.
All cars get crummy mileage when they are cold.

I suspect the hybrid will get better MPG than the EX even with short trips.
To compare the EX automatic and the Hybrid automatic the City EPA:
EX 30 MPG
Hybrid 49 MPG

The Hybrid is 39% better.

If you get only 20 MPG doing these short trips in the EX I suspec the hybrid will give you 39% better, or 28 MPG.

When driving cold, the hybrid still recovers energy when slowing down and then uses it when you accelerate, instead wasting ALL of the kinetic energy in the brake pads -like the EX does.

Also the emissions are MUCH lower in the hybrid.
There is the $2100 tax credit.
Carpool and parking priveleges in many places.

 

That's not true. For the first mile or so after a cold start there is no regen and no assist. It may be less than a mile in warm temperatures and more in colder temperature. In essence, during the first few minutes the HCH runs exactly like a non-hybrid Civic. No advantage.