Hi everyone, I'm looking to buy my first new car, and am pretty much trying to decide between a Civic Hybrid and a Civic LX (the Toyota Corolla is still in the running, but is currently pretty far behind in my personal rankings due to the lack of side airbags and just general subjective feel). This forum's been a great resource, but I still have a few unanswered questions I hope you all can help me with:


The first is about emissions: do they simply scale with fuel consumption, or do the hybrids put out even less for the amount of gas they burn? (Why that might be, I couldn't really say) In my mind, the various costs (initial outlay vs. gas savings, etc.) pretty much even out, and so the decision I'm really making is environmental peace of mind vs. somewhat uncertain long-term reliability. Given that my girlfriend and a number of other close friends have serious asthma, it's a pretty big factor for me.


My next concern is about high-speed performance. I drive Toronto - London pretty much weekly, and that stretch of the 401 seems to have a right-lane speed of 110-120 km/h [68-75 mph] (even the 18 wheelers are screaming at 120, and sometimes faster in the middle of the night), and passing traffic usually goes at 130 km/h [81 mph] or more. The test drives I took with the two Civic models didn't get anywhere near those speeds, so I don't know how the cars will handle. If my driving habits stay about the same, then I'll be driving most of the way at 120 km/h, with brief passing runs at 130 km/h. Will the hybrid be able to handle those sorts of speeds? Also, will the fuel economy suffer disproportionately? (i.e.: Would the hybrid's smaller engine go into a less-efficient regime at those speeds, and allow the regular Civic to close the gap in fuel consumption? Would I save more/pollute less by getting a gas only Civic if most of my driving is under those conditions?). Also, how well does it manage to get up to and stay at speed when it's fully loaded with people and gear?

Makes me wish there were speed/consumption graphs for cars... this thread seems to help a bit: https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...l?page=1&pp=10


Not exactly hybrid-related, but does anyone know if it would be kosher to try to arrange a test drive at another dealership that's closer to the highway, even if I plan on buying from the original dealership in the end? (I couldn't test the cars on the 401 because they wanted them back in 30 minutes, and it was easily 20 minutes each way to the highway...)


One observation from my test drive is that the ICE did autostop again after I came to a stop at a red light, then restarted it, crept ahead, and stopped again. I've heard that it wasn't doing that without some somewhat high speed in between the two stops.


Finally, I'm not too concerned about the rear seats not folding down. I do often find myself with a full car, but most of the stuff I take fits in file boxes, so it makes just as much sense to stack them seperately in the trunk and in the back seat as it does to fold the seat down and make it all one big cargo area. However, I am concerned that the trunk is smaller (my guesstimate is that it's about 2 file boxes smaller). Does anyone know of any add-on cargo containers that would fit it? From what I know, there should be a fair number of roof racks that fit the bill, but I don't know if there's anything that would go behind the car, since it doesn't have a trailer hitch and also has the spoiler on the trunk...

 

I would recommend the Hybrid for the gas-savings, reduced emissions, and so-cool-I-gotta-have-it factor.

I believe the lower emissions rating comes from the smaller ICE, the auto-stop feature, and the elusive eletric-only-more (what's the term for that again?).

I have not had any problems commuting at 65-70 mph in the week I have had my car.

The trunk is not THAT small. Sure it'd be nice it the seats folded down, but I'm not sure it'd help with file boxes. I'd bet you could fit 3-4 in the trunk, 5-6 in the rear bench, 2 on the front seat and one on the floor. You need more space than that? I'd say a roof rack could hurt FE by 10% and a hitch mounted rack may be more trouble than it's worth.

I say go back to YOUR dealership and insist on driving the car on the interstate. Also, bring one file box and try it out for size in the trunk and seats to get a rough estimate of how many you could haul.

Good luck!

P.S. Did I mention to definately get the hybrid?

 

The HCH2 is a Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle because it pulls evaporative emissions back into the engine to be burned off -- I am not an expert at this, but I do remember reading this somewhere, and I appologize if it is an overgeneralized statement.

Taken from about.com:
Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle. AT-PZEV-rated vehicles are 90% cleaner than the average new car and have near-zero evaporative emissions. They also incorporate alternate fuel, gas electric, or other technology. The hybrid must also have a 15 year/150,000 mile warranty on the emission control systems.

 

I may be able to help a bit...

I drive interstate sections quite frequently, and usually at the 75-80mph range that you refer to. I find the car to be completely stable and solid, as well as responsive. I would venture to say you will be completely satisfied in this department.

Also, you mention that the autostop activated for you after only creeping ahead. Mine does the same thing. I've also found that quite often, if I let off the brake and the engine restarts, I can press the brake and slip the car into neutral to re-activate the autostop. I've concluded that the autostop doesn't activate based solely on speed between stops, but rather on the load the car is experiencing (i.e. if you have the a/c on and you're blasting it to get to 73 degrees while it's 105 outside, you'll likely not get into autostop). However, I'm certainly not in a position to explain the technical intricasies here.

I agree that a speed/consumption graph would be incredibly useful, although one might create 2 of them...one for a/c on and one for a/c off. Anyone know how to get one going (moderator)?

And I agree with most of the comments by "noflash" save the comment urging you to buy the car for its "so-cool-I-gotta-have-it factor". This type of spending philosophy will put you in a new car annually and the poorhouse quickly. Buy the car for it's gas savings, emission reduction capabilities, and to make a statement to those around you that you are concerned with things other than yourself, such as the state of our environment. Just my opinion, of course.

 

I believe the Hybrid is the better overall choice, provided that you are willing to exploit its unique attributes. If you just want to drive a vehicle for the sake of routine while neglecting good driving habits then the LX would be a better choice.

Let's face it the 06 Civic Hybrid is no sports car and it requires very good planning when overtaking traffic at high speed. This means ensuring that you have a good state of charge to assist the smaller gas engine. In some situations, switching the transmission to "S" mode is also imperative. My personal experience at speeds above 100km/h is that the vehicle progressively consumes more fuel but never more than a Civic LX. In other words, you are ALWAYS better off with the hybrid when it comes to emmissions and fuel consumption. Will you get FE close to what Energuide lists if you drive consistently at speeds higher than 100km/h ? Heck no. But it will still be better than any other vehicle in its class.

As far as I know, only the Prius II can best the 06 HCH in emmisions and the HCH does so much better than a Civic LX because it was designed to do so. From a technical standpoint the HCH has many engineering and technical features that are absent in a regular gas-only Civic. It is not only a matter of it having a smaller engine. It actually has a better and more sophisticated emission control package.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

When I bought my hybrid, I was also considering the LX model. I test drove them both. Although you do notice a small loss in power, it was not as bad as I expected. In fact, I commute 75% highway and 25% back roads to work every day without any problem. I don't have any concerns passing someone or merging onto a busy highway. In fact, I really like the CVT (continuously variable transmission) on the hybrid - it is very smooth and gives me the power I need when passing at high speeds. Although it is definitely true that your fuel economy will suffer somewhat if you drive at high speeds and are aggressive with the acceleration - I would expect in the low 40s with the hybrid and low 30s with the LX.

To get a good idea of emissions, I believe you can read the emissions information posted on the stickers for the hybrid and LX models. (Not sure if it is the same in Canada as here in the US.) However, it is pretty clear that the emissions on the hybrid are lower, even though the LX has pretty low emissions too (so you don't need to feel too guilty if you decide on that model).

I don't have a problem with the trunk space; however, to be fair, we also have a CR-V for hauling oversized items so that was not a factor for me at all when I was purchasing the hybrid.

 

Oh, don't be such a prude! It's fine to have a car of cutting-edge technology and enjoy it. C'mon, admit it -- you know it's cool!

 

Prior to purchasing my HCHII, I also had concerns about highway speed capabilities. In my other cars, I was always impatient and had to be the fastest and ahead of everyone. Once I got my HCH, I changed (and that's after almost 30 years of driving!). While the car is very capable (though no sports car!), I found it more fun to see how high I could get the MPG. I'm now quite content to hang in the right lane at just below the limit. No problems in accelerating on on-ramps and such.

Driving at higher speeds will have a significant MPG penalty... unless you cut the wind and draft some of those fast trucks! In July, I followed a truck for 240 miles at 70 MPG and got 55 mpg (with the A/C running, too!). You just have to be very careful when doing that.

As for storage, it's actually quite amazing what you can cram into that trunk. I fit two full size road bikes in there (I posted some pictures on another thread!), along with lots of other biking gear and duffle bags.

I've also seen photos posted of another GH member's car... with a "hidden hitch" setup for a bike rack. I suppose a small trailer could be hooked up successfully to that.

As for the test drive on the highway... well, where I live (southern California), there are usually NO hybrids available for viewing or test drives. I bought mine sight-unseen. I test drive an LX (or EX, can't remember!) just to get an idea of what it looked like and felt like. The fact that you've had ANY time behind the wheel of a hybrid already has you with a big advantage over me!

Good luck on your selection!

 

My, you offend easily! As I stated, it's just my opinion.

 

You can typically expect 30% better fuel economy with the HCH II as compared to the non-hybird Civic. If you follow the tips in this forum, you can realize much better than that. The HCHII still gets excellent fuel economy at higher highway speeds.

If you do a lot of driving, it pays financially to ge the hybrid model.

I looked at the Corolla and thought there was no comparison to the Civic.