CVT fluid
 

The time is coming soon for my CVT service. I always do my own service, but out of curiosity I went to the local dealer and asked how much. They said they normally only drain and fill once... I asked about the 3x drain and fill the owner's manual recommends. They said it isn't necessary. Hogwash. There's got to be a reason why Honda recommends this (more than just selling fluid!!!). I then went to the parts department to buy the nine quarts of fluid I need. They want $9 per qt for this stuff :omg: !!!

Does anyone know where I can buy the genuine Honda CVT fluid in So. Cal for a more reasonable cost? Thanks.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Where is the three times flush of the CVT fluid in the Owner's Manual? I've heard this mentioned before, but it was coming from the Service Manual as a special procedure, and only if required; That's an entirely different thing.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Jeff;

Unless you are experiencing CVT related anomalies, I believe they are correct. Honda does recommend the 3x drain and refill for suspect instances, targeted service bulletins, or as part of the regular "burnish" routine.

However, if you service your vehicle regularly and never exceed the service window interval for the HATF replacement then there's absolutely no need to spend extra money and resources.
You still may wish to do it and if so, the more power to you. It certainly won't hurt the car, that's for sure. :)


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: CVT fluid
 

+1 on the single change.

The only time that a 3X fill flush would come into play is if the transmission had not been serviced regularly or if it had experienced a problem requiring repair.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Well, I haven't checked the paper owner's manual, but I do often use the electronic one I downloaded a long time ago. On page 196, it states the following:

"To thoroughly flush the transmission, the technician should drain and refill it with Honda CVT fluid, then drive the vehicle for a short distance. Do this three times. Then drain and refill the transmission a final time. Insert the dipstick all the way back into the transmission securely. The transmission should be drained and refilled with new fluid when this service is indicated by a maintenance message on the information display. If you are not sure how to add fluid, contact your dealer."

I'm making the assumption that there is only one type of transmission service message which can be displayed... and therefore, the 3x drain-fill procedure is indeed the one Honda wants us to do. Please let me know if there is any other notation within the owner's manual about just doing a single (1x) drain and fill.

If I can avoid the 3x drain, that would be wonderful!!!

Re: CVT fluid
 

hmmmmm... So much for saving oil.... 3x flush.....

Re: CVT fluid
 

Jeff,
I mail ordered mine from Bernardi with some other items. The cost for each qt. was approximately $6.00. When you factor in shipping it was cheaper to order X amount of items from them then pay the outrageous sales tax we pay here in Taxafornia. Plus the money that is spent on shipping directly benifits a business and not the governments pockets!

Re: CVT fluid
 

Jeff. I really think if you have not over worked the CVT and burnt the oil, or have had bearings burn up.If the oil has got really hot you should be able to smell it. If none of these problems ,you should only require three qts. of oil. I really don't like this system. You can flush it ten times and still have old oil in your CVT. But I have not heard of anyone that has come up with a sulution to a poor design? H

Re: CVT fluid
 

So, say that you do decide to fill and drain 3 times, do you have to use brand new ATF each time, or do you drain the original ATF, discard it, fill with new ATF, run it awhile, drain it, and then fill it with the same new ATF again 3 times? Or do you fill it with brand new ATF each time? And what about the drained oil? It is for practical purposes fresh oil, so can you save it to use again at the next ATF change?

I have not been able to find anyone that deals with Honda CVT transmissions on a regular basis to confirm that the 3x fill/drain is proper for a routine 30K service. Other than the owners manual are there any other credible sources that suggest a 3x fill/drain?

Re: CVT fluid
 

If you get the service done by a Honda dealership, they invoice you for what they use. If your CVT transmission fails, you are protected since they informed you in writing (invoice) they are only going to use 1x change.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Re: CVT fluid
 

That is my plan, have honda do the CVT and I hope they only use three qts. H

Re: CVT fluid
 

The service manual has a section on the scheduled maintenance intervals. If it is anywhere, it would be in there.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Most people have used the one flush method, unless problems talked about by masntos, then they go with the three flush method. H

Re: CVT fluid
 

:shade:
I did the three time flush tonight. I just turned 30,358 miles.
I bought the fluid for $5.59 plus tax per quart through my brothers body shop.
Yes a savings doing it myself so I used the whole 12 quarts.
It was starting to chatter & was not smooth operating anymore.
The service minder said to service the trans. SO
I took off the full plastic cover & changed the engine oil,
Mobil Synthetic 0-20 & filter.
I then drained & refilled the trans with 3 quarts ( after measuring the drained amount to make sure).
I then backed her off the ramps & went on a 2 mile city ride & returned.
The first drain fluid was black, the second was clearer & the last one was like watrer. I noticed a increditable smooth operation from rom the trans in just the first flush & then better with the second but then it didnt make a difference after that , the fluid just got cleaner.
I am glad I changed the fluid. I just used a long trans funnel & poured it in the dip stick tube (slowley)
I dont worry about the cost of the fluid, I do the work myself & benifit the good gas mileage & savings on labor. I really enjoy the car.
It is worth it & I pity those people who dont read the manual & dont service there transmission.
I read a lot about the trans flush, the fluid, the transmission today on this forum & i'm glad for the imformation and happy to share my experience.
JC:)

Re: CVT fluid
 

Grounded, did you use Honda CVT oil, or Auto trans. oil? H

Re: CVT fluid
 

Thanks (everyone) for your input! Still a bit confused on which way I'll go with this. I have no chattering or performance issues whatsoever. Of course, I want to keep it that way... so perhaps I'll do a 2x drain and fill to compromise!

As for cost, I saw Bernardi's price... but by the time you include shipping, we're probably back to the $9 per quart that the dealer's parts department charges. Does anyone else have any sources for cheaper CVT fluid? Anyone in So Cal want to trade some CVT fluid for some Genuine Honda 0W-20 motor oil (I have six gallons of that stuff!!!)?

Re: CVT fluid
 

Jeff, do you not use the 0-20 Honda mtr. oil? H

Re: CVT fluid
 

I do use it, but six gallons will last me a very LONG time! So the next question is "Why did you buy six gallons of very expensive oil?" ANSWER: A friend works for the company Honda buys the oil from. He got me a great deal on two cases of the stuff! Too bad they don't also make the CVT fluid, or I'd be in GREAT shape!

Re: CVT fluid
 

Do you know if the honda 0-20 is synthetic?H

Re: CVT fluid
 

Ahhhh... the age-old question! I did ask him. I believe his answer was that it was a blend. Not a pure synthetic, but a combination. Whatever it is, it works! Great mileage and long change intervals. I love it.

Incidentally, I have used the Mobil one 0W-20 (still have four quarts of that left, too!). I did not notice any change in MPG between the two products.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Thank you, Jeff. Very good infoe. H

Re: CVT fluid
 

I experienced similar issues with my CVT. THe "rubber-band" effect was becoming extremely annoying, and the CVT was sluggish with lower mpgs. I changed it x2, with the first being awful and the second much better (dark pink). I highly suggest a x2 flush, especially for the first time. For the extra $20 or so it's worth it to extend the trans life. I ordered from Bernardi and I think it was more around $7.50/ qt all said and done, though I ordered air filters and so forth as well to maximize the value of the shipping costs. Be careful what you order, some items appeared to possibly run up the shipping cost (due to haz mat perhaps?).

Re: CVT fluid
 

I checked the service manual and it says to only do it once. I don't think doing it 3X will hurt though. ;)

Re: CVT fluid
 

What is causing this oil to barnish? My CVT seems to be very smooth and I will be very unhappy if I notice the CVT oil turning dark:cry: .I have approx. 9000 mile on my HCH2. I wonder if the oil is not doing the job that Honda intended it to do. Maybe we should be looking at using a synthetic fluid? That oil should last much longer than 30,000 miles:angry:

Re: CVT fluid
 

When exactly is this oil change needed? I was under the impression that Civic Hybrid require less maintenance than a regular civic?? I am about to purchase the HCH 2007 tomorrow. This is scaring me.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Nothing to worry about Anand. HCH is good car. Only looking for information on the CVT. H

Re: CVT fluid
 

I think the maintenance interval for the CVT fluid change is at 30,000 miles.
You can ask the dealer tomorrow; I'm sure they can give you an idea of the maintenance schedule.
Also, if you sign up at my honda.com, you can obtain the maintenance schedules for your 2007.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Thanks, Colby! That's what I was hoping for. I'll buy enough CVT fluid to do 2x (6 qts) just in case what I pull out of there looks bad. Like I said, everything's running smooth as silk at 24,000 mi.

Anand... The change interval will end up being about 28,000 mi., based upon my maintenance minder. I don't think that's unreasonable for a transmission service. I know that lots of newer automatic transmissions have higher change intervals (or no change intervals!), but just a few years ago, 30k was the norm. This ISN'T an automatic transmission, so it's reasonable to expect about 30k. It's also only 3 quarts (for 1x change), and there's no filter to change, either.

Re: CVT fluid
 

wonder why wanna save on little bit of money and spend more later?

i've own few auto cars and i've being flushing them very early stage of the cycle
abt first 10km travelled, then every 20km, syn oil offer smoother ride
honda recommended 3x changing mimick the flushing
we must throughly clean the auto trans compartment else its equal to changing

what is changing?
drain and top up with new oil
but given the auto trans setup, you can only removed 30% of the dirty oil
unlike engine oil draining we can remove up to 70% of dirt
so honda recommended 3x maybe cleans the compartment up to 60% or more

what is flushing?
continuious toping up of new oil while removing them at the same time
all done with a flushing machine, till the draining pipe show clear oil
the operation stops
with a 3litres capacity you may need up to 13litres for the setup
if usage patterns involves lots of start/stop/idling travelling, that may increase till 15 or more

cvt the more expensive part of our car, pls do not cut corners there

Re: CVT fluid
 

ok...thank you for the reply. I feel better. I was getting a feeling that there are major service requirements than what I had thought.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Folks;

I don't know if I can add much more value to this thread, but I figured I could reinforce the alternate "official" perspective on the regular servicing of the Honda Gen 3 CVT.

As I mentioned before, I know first hand (only from Honda Canada) that it does not recommend that the regular CVT H-ATF be replaced more than once, unless there are reasons justifying 2x or 3x to be performed.

In all fairness they do not disapprove of it either, on the contrary it can only help and they are certainly not against it if that is what you prefer.

Again, please check with your dealer if you need additional details.
For those of you with service literature you will notice that the 3X fluid replacement is the recommended procedure for resolving CVT issues. It is pretty explicit. The normal service routine does not require a similar approach unless the service personnel deems it necessary... or of course, you desire it to be so. ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

Re: CVT fluid
 

Well I put another 350 miles on my civic this weekend, after the oil change & trans fluid change. it was all freeway but never the less it was city to get home & it runs & feels just so smooth. I use Mobil 0-20 full synthetic.
The flush fluid was genuyine Honda CVT fluid with a letter following but I forgot what it was but it was from a Honda & they understood it was for the civic cvt.
It was so easy I think some people don’t understand by draining the Trans all the fluid will not drain out. It holds a total of 9 quarts. But after 3 times it is clear again.
I called two dealers to find out how much & one dealer said we only drain & fill once @ $65.00. I said the glove box book says to do it 3 times. They said it isn’t necessary. The second dealer said they do as the book requires to drain & fill 3 times. I'm happy with what I did.
JC:D

Re: CVT fluid
 

This brings up a good point... My maint. minder said to change the CVT fluid at 24K mi. I definitely think it needed it and can see a difference, but it said to change the fluid at my 4th oil change, which would have been 30K miles if I had changed the engine oil every 7500 mi (I change it usually around 6K or so). DOes the minder go by the actual condition of the CVT or engine oil or simply by the # of miles, or # of oil changes performed for the CVT fluid indicator?

Re: CVT fluid
 

Mike, was it you that had trouble with your CVT running really hot? H

Re: CVT fluid
 

I think it goes by miles Mike. It may also factor in how hard you are on the CVT, but I'm not positive about either of those.

Re: CVT fluid
 

Yes. I never did find a leak from the plug or anything else to explain the smell and my mysterious burning smell has never reappeared after the fluid change x2 (6 qts total) despite several longer freeway trips and lots of stop/ go rush hour driving. My mpgs went up noticeably and the trans rarely if ever "bucks." The dealer couldn't find a problem but the old fluid was obviosuly much more viscous than the new and the magnetic drain plug had LOTS of crap on it. I'm hoping it was just break-in.

Re: CVT fluid
 

I guess that is all you can do for now. I would keep a eye on the CVT dip stick for any change in the oil color! H

Re: CVT fluid
 

Speaking of dip stick. Has anyone noticed the CVT fluid seems to "contract," for lack of a better term, in really cold weather (~15 deg. this morning). When cold, the reading is almost off the stick entirely even though nothing has changed.

Re: CVT fluid
 

That is normal with auto type trans..Check level when its hot. Oil expands as it heats up. H

Re: CVT fluid
 

Just got a note from a friend who works at Honda corporate. I asked him to confirm Honda's position on the CVT fluid change. The official word? Normal maintenance is just the single fluid drain and fill UNLESS you find metal shavings in the fluid. Then the 3x drain & fill is used.

Glad to get the official word on this. It'll save me lots of $$$ on fluid!