For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Something has been nagging me lately. I have an 03 CVT with 99 tanks of MPG data under my belt. Lifetime MPG is 45.61. I have a 46 mile daily commute over 75% highway, 25% suburbs. I use most "average" techniques - drive slow, limit A/C, slow accellerate, etc. I don't FAS or drive drastically under the limit.

OK, the question. I see a lot of HCH owners with 50 or 60+ MPG averages. My best tank ever was 52 MPG - that's out of 40 months of driving. I don't believe, with my route, that I'm capable of a 60 MPG tank - let alone that being the average. I won't dispute anyone's claims - that's not the point of my question. What I'd like to know is what are you all doing that makes a close to a 15 MPG difference between my car and yours? What conditions would you claim contribute to that kind of gain?

I'm fishing for ideas to try out - or at least to see how "extreme" they are. The summer is a good time to try for a record tank - dry weather, and my car seems to perform best then. I'd like to try for a record tank - curious what else to focus on that would not have me pushing the car down the road myself...;)

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

i kinda cheat... see, i use my car only to drive to and from work which is a good 25 mi one way, most of it in the highway. it is here where i put to use the tips found in this forum to maximize fe. for short trips (or if i need to drive a tad faster than usual), i use my wife's car. ;)

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim, I don't do too much special. I have overinflated tires, and I FAS as I'm going in to my driveway at work. Other than that I just keep RPMS low, keep my foot pretty much locked at a specific point so I'm not fluctuating the throttle much. In my case my drive is 100% city so I also try to anticipate lights.

Have you ever described your commute in another thread? If you have could you link it. If not could you give the details of your commute?

Also, do you use one of your trip meters to watch your segment? I reset trip b on mine for every segment. I reset it going to work and I reset it again coming back.

Set up checkpoints along your commute and see how they affect milage. Then try to improve on the nastiest parts.

Check for alternate routes. Are there any frontage roads going next to the highways you can use instead of being stuck in traffic?

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim I also have a 46 mile (exactly) commute.
It sounds like you are already doing some things, but I'll say for me to get my own numbers requires a pretty radical departure from the "norm".

I'm heading into Atlanta while everyone is heading out, so I miss the terrible miles upon miles of gridlock traffic, and usually park at about 68-73MPG.
I leave work again in the wee hours of the night on nearly abandoned streets and have the opportunity so I really work it as extreme as safely and practical as possible. I usually park with 70-76 on the dash.

If you'd like a play-by-play I'd be happy to pound one out for you how I do it but would likely be a very long post.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Actually I have not. It starts with about 6 miles and 6 stop signs/lights to get out of the community - most is at 40 MPH. Then it's a fairly long 10 mile run at about 50 MPH, 5 stop lights along the way. Then it's the highway for the last 7 miles into work - 60 MPH (3 stops before I hit the parking lot). The trip out is conjested but moves. The trip home is usually 10 MPH slower everywhere, 4 of the 7 highway miles are stop and go. the 6 miles into the community can be stop and go as well. After I fill the tank, the MPG guage will usually do the following:

Fill Up
Out: 65
Back: 54
Out: 56
Back: 51
Out: 53
Back: 49
Out: 51
Back: 48
Out: 50
Back: 49
-- That's where it bounces back and forth until the end of tank - usually 49 on the meter, 46 actual.

That's a really good idea. I'll give that a try.

I suppose my "segment" record would be after a fill up, from there to work. Best was 70 on the display (hit 67 earlier this week). So that's 23 miles one way. But never anything close for a tank - not with my route. I was curious if there was something new under the sun or some new revelation that hadn't been discussed yet. :)

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim/Paul, I see you're from Seattle, too. We're at a disadvantage with all these hills. Driving as conscientiously as possible, I can't get above 49 or so for a round trip.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

How are you at timing all those stop signs in your route? I would try to eliminate the FE loss from them by either a) finding an alternate route without so much stop lights, or b) practice light timing.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

By far the biggest thing that moved my mileage from the mid 40s to the mid 50s was the increase in air pressure from 32 to 40 to 45.

Even if you are not comfortable moving the pressure to 44 (sidewall max), try moving it to 36, then to 40. You will notice it in your mileage.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim,
My route sounds like yours. Mostly rural highway, with the rest city/suburbs.
I got 63 MPG this morning.
The highway has a 55MPH limit, but I go 45. It's 2 lanes, so traffic passes me all the time.
NEVER USE CRUISE CONTROL. RPMs rev too high on even the slightest of inclines. I actually slow down on any incline and let gravity help on the way down.
Keeping the IMPG gauge between 50 and 100 has helped out immesely too. It leaves plenty of charge for when it's needed, while achieving a 60-70 MPG while cruising.
I have a HCH2, which has more charge capacity. So trying this might not have the same impact on a HCH1.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim,

My most recent tank has been averaging 51mpg and I do mostly stop/go driving in town but I always try and take a route with less stop signs and lights. Pretty much do what you have been doing. No FAS except if I get fooled at a light then I shut down the ICE. I beleive that my mpg could be a lot better if it weren't for the new reformualted fuel that Massachusetts has mandated, replaced MTBE with 10% ethanol. Not sure if you have the same fuel where you are.

My tires are at 40psi (Bridgestone B series) and that seems to help a bit.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim- In the techniques you use, you didn't mention "driving with load" (DWL) as a technique. In my experience, its not enough to drive slow in areas with lots of terrain changes. You need to take advantage of momentum through the downhills (gaining speed as you decend) and minimize engine load on the uphills (feathering the gas pedal back as you ascend until you reach the crest of the hill). DWL has worked wonders for my last several tanks.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

It's hard to say how I've done it, I don't have a solid routine when it comes to driving. The big thing I do is go 60 mph when I'm on the highway, I use CC but there aren't many hills here, I also try to limit AC use (the tank I'm on now is doing really well (60.5 mpg) because I've been doing most of my driving at night so it's cool and I don't have to use the AC... but also becuase the drive is perfect).

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Thanks for the replies. I do a lot of what's been suggested - guess it's an issue of environment. I do not have the option to take many different routes - they're all bad. Also, traffic is solid - much of it on 2-lane roads, so there's no room to maximize anything. Throw in a lot of hills - guess I should be content with what I have. Thanks -

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim,

The MPG meter is your friend and not sure of the 1gen HCH but, the 2gen I can actually drive up a mountain and get a good MPG it comes down to how slow you drive to get it though. This site has been a wealth of information for me in acheiving a good MPG. And hills depending on the height may actually be a good thing feather the pedal up and glide down. After reading I started putting the things I read to use and found them extremely helpful. Keeping a car in the 60MPG range I have to take my hats off because I am not that determined. I still drive at close to normal speeds and at times I'll go for all EV mode and assist during decents down mountains. Or even late when getting off of work. At these times are when you rack up a good MPG, reading, applying and the MPG meter are keys though. Good Luck.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

With what you describe, what you get is about right.

During the day, heat (a/c on and it can get too hot and start dropping efficiency in my experience) traffic (lights and driver's who don't understand momentum conservation in front of me), road work, and maintaining flow of traffic, I have gotten in the 42 range, I saw it dip under 40 once and had to change my route. But even without that I did manage to get it back up just by learning the pattern of the roads. If I know I am on a 2-lane, and people turn a lot, I put more space and watch for the signs of a slow down or stop.

If I drive the same roads at off-peak times, which gives me NO traffic, catch all green lights, and maximize momentum ... I can get nearly 70 mpg with no major efforts (even with the a/c running), this is about a 6-8 mile one way commute from a cold engine.

I don't FAS, or anything really special. I have learned how to drive as close to 40 mpg with assist while accelerating, get up to speed a little quicker if I have a hill/overpass just ahead of a red light, but in general, I have learned how to use the least amount of fuel to maintain my speed. I do maximize charge without friction brakes as a general practice. It helps me keep a more smooth driving approach and have slowly gotten better timing from this easily performed passive driving technique. I use more assist than some others, and I try to make up for it in other areas.

I have found 80-100 mpg easily attainable at 45 mph if the road is of good condition and the temps are right. I will admit, my car seems a bit quirky, sometimes I seem to be able to climb slight inclines with 60+ mpg, sometimes flat ground it stuggles to do the same. I do have tire pressure between 55-65 depending on my mood. I have taken the advice of another and get just a little above the limit and use that gap to get the car at a steady speed.

I would say take some time out, find a nice smooth road with some sections of varying conditions (flat spots, rolling hills, etc), with little traffic (usually at night) and just learn your car. Get on an intimate basis on its particular behaviors, and find out how it wants to be driven best. That is what I did. I found a state road with light traffic at night and took a few 100+ mile round trips. I was very happy the first time I found a 10+ mile stretch I could maintain 80+ on the instant, then I learned that I could get it to 120 and hold it with more experience.

I feel driving a hybrid is the same as anything, the more you do it, the better you get. If you were to go to an autocross event, each time you run, you learn something new ... or do as you are now, and ask what others are doing to lower their times. I believe you may be able to surpass the 40s with a/c if you can find a good place to get some good segments under your belt.

Are you absolutely certain you have 0w-20 in you engine? are you at least at the reccommended pressure or higher (cold)? Are you due for any fluid changes? Do you carry any extra weight? Do you still have the low rolling resistant tires? Have you tried a fuel treatment injection cleaner lately (not saying they work but maybe worth a try)? Is your route in such a way that it creates forced regen (which it is still possible to do 60+ with it)? Waxed your car (j/k ;) )? Can't think of any other particulars that can have an effect at the moment, but if anyone else can ... oh, have you tried different shoes? I know it sounds funny, but some of my footwear makes it easier to control the pedal pressure than others. On a LONG trip sometimes I go barefoot to get a better feel and more control ... Managed almost 70 mpg on the interstate just with controlled foot pressure. Maybe listen to some relaxing music it helps some. I would definately not put on a 'racing' mix tape :P

It is possible to get amazing things out of these cars in near perfect conditions, but over 40 in traffic and heat ... is still quite a feat to do in my eyes.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Woah, isn't 55-65 PSI way over the limit? I have my Insight's tires at 50 PSI, but that's already more than 10% over the rated 44 PSI Max. I don't know what tires you have, but putting an extra 10-20 PSI in them does not sound safe. I'd be afraid of a blow out with that much pressure in them.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

A while back there was a thread about tires having a safety margin and over inflating was said to be relatively safe. Personally I don't suggest going over the max rated pressure. I run mine at about their rated max of 44 but some tires are rated both higher and lower.....I've seen as high as 51 and as low as 32. YMMV

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

i, too, have a 40 mile commute, which i can do 90% on the highway. i almost always drive between 55-60 MPH, never over that no matter that i am being passed like crazy. i watch my pulse and glide, doing that even on small dips, it really helps. when i am really in the mood to up the MPG, i take the back roads, which i am lucky to have as an option, sounds like you don't, tim. i coast a lot of the hills in neutral (don't trust turning the engine off), and drive about 45 all the way home. other than that, i am just lucky. even before my HCH, i have been able somehow to nurse a lot of good MPG out of my hondas.......an 85 accord, which i miss.....my 93 civic, which hubby is still driving. the only one that gave me fits was the CRV.

you are still doing better than about 90% of the population, and at least you care :)

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

:D Bought the 0-20W myself - saw it go in. Tires at 45 psi. Fluids - check. No extra weight. Now I do have Continental ContiTouringContact CV 95 tires - part of my tire/wheel upgrade. They are, however, LRR according to Continental. Since my MPG is "about" the same as before, I think they're good. Car recently waxed...

I hit 3-4 50-51 MPG tanks last year in August, but I can't seem to approach that this year. Since the new tires top has been 47.5 or so. I'm hoping the wheel/tire combo didn't prevent a 50+ tank. I'll post some results in October on the whole thing - 1 year of data behind me.

I just can't see getting a 60 MPG tank. I can, under freakishly specific circumstances, but it quickly turns into more work on a long drive. And after a long day of work, I don't want to have to think that hard on the ride home. :D

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Thanks! How fun is it to discuss how bored I am with only getting 45 MPG...:D Can't wait for the next Prius or some kind of breakthrough where we get a 80-90 MPG car...

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Does the Seattle area mandate the use of reformulated fuel with 10% ethanol or are you still getting MTBE additive? I've lost about 3-5 mpg now that MA has changed over to reform fuel with ethanol and I can't seem to get much more than about 51 mpg no matter how hard I try.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Now that you mention it, the gas stations I frequent all have 10% ethanol. If I were attempting to be a hypermiler, I might have noticed before.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

I don't think so, but the only evidence I have is that my MPG has been consistent for going on 4 years now. I've noticed no real drop between what I was getting in 2003 versus now.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

I have a MAJOR issue with this and was going to post my own thread about it but was sidetracked reading old threads (kind of entertaining) and actually came across this in the process.

This morning I began recording the dash millage at 10 mile increments and plan to do so through a series of 500 to 550 mile tanks. In the past year or so I've seen a pattern. From 0 to about 200 miles the dash FE looks great - upwards of 50 MPG, on occasion well over. But between 200 and 250 miles it begins to plummet. The dash will begin showing somewhere between 44 and 46 MPG, and it's been this way on almost every single tank.

If you're resetting your trip meter on segments then you're taking too small of readings to get any kind of remotely accurate measurements. Furthermore the dash is wrong. I've seen people say the dash was as much as 3 MPG high (Tim, "usually 49 on the meter, 46 actual") and 3 MPG low and both inconsistencies on the same car in the same conditions. 3 MPG high on a 46 MPG tank is a 6.52% variance on correctness ... WHAT!?!?! If that percentage holds true then people claiming 65 MPG from the dash are probably actually getting closer to 61 MPG. And if you're stringing together segments and calling high readings from a series of short segments any kind of lifetime then your actual mileage is dramatically lower. Tim is making the same out and back trip and seeing a difference of 15 MPG on later trips. That's over 20% lower when the dash starts giving something that's only wrong by 6.52%.

Case in point, Tim's data:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6...titled1fx9.gif

Resetting your trip-o-meter is going to give you unusable results. Relying on the dash is going to give you inconsistent results. The only way to know how much fuel you are burning on a regular basis is to measure the miles you drive and divide them by the amount of fuel you put in the vehicle.

My dash usually says something like 46.4, but my actual is more like 44.2. I don't do anything special when I drive and I drive 5 miles in town and 25 miles on interstate one way every day. It's mostly flat with a couple minimal hills. I'm going to record 10 mile increments according to the dash for several tanks (about a tank a week) and see how it charts out.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

i have on occasion used segments, but found it to be more work than it's worth. and i may describe on the boards that i am getting a 65MPG or whatever, but until i see what the actual gas usage is, i don't count that as my actual mileage.

that said, the highest i have recorded for an entire tank is 65.18, with my summer average just about 59. minnesota winters, with the addition of snow tires, keeps me lower than i think i could do elsewhere. even so, i still manage to stay above 50 in the winter. icy roads often times act like low rollling resistance tires LOL

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Did you check your air filter? Make sure the air intake is clear (Above the radiator).

Critters like to build nests in there and that would restrict air flow.

-C...

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

My mileage is consistantly off by 10% or so. I use the trip fcd for segments, but I use gas+miles on the odometer for my actual tank calculations. In my database entry I have been putting in what the car said in the fcd in the notes, but using fuel used and miles driven for my calculations for the tank.

Also, I have heard that over 65MPG or so the fcd starts to be pesimistic vs the optomistic at below 65mpg.

Generaly I take 10% off the numbers when I tell people what I get for a trip unless it is over 65mpg.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

It may have been obvious, but to clarify those readings are on the same meter reset. That is, fill up, reset the trip computer, and that's what the readout is as I come and go from work. That error margin of 3 MPG is actually 3.1 MPG over the 100 tanks of gas I've recorded - always low. Measured at the end of the tank (when comparing the dash readout to the actual calculated MPG).

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

My lifetime milage is 55.3 mpg. I live on the east coast of Florida. I work at Cape Canaveral and get there by driveing through Kennedy Space Center. There is a lot of Secuity there and they run lots of speed traps. My route is perfectly flat and I use the cruise control. 70 miles round trip. 55 mph going to work. 45 mph coming home. I don't use the A/C which is tough in the summer. I aviod the interstate. Believe it or not I actually pick my route home based on the wind direction. I have three routes to pick from. It makes a big difference. Thats about it. No forced auto stops or any of that hypermiler stuff. I think it is mostly the enviroment you drive in and the gas formulation that determines your gas mileage. Also the driver. My best advise would be move to sunny Florida:shade:

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Responding to two points in this thread:

1. Reformulated fuel with ethanol: I live in CT, where ethanol is now used, and this winter my mileage dropped by about 3 mpg, from 47 to 44. It's now rebounding, but it seems as if cold weather mileage has dropped significantly. Until this winter I was getting the same mileage year round, including no drop using AC. Really.

I was concerned that my batteries might be going bad, but now I think it's the reformulated fuel. Anyone else notice this?

2. I consistently get 3 mpg actual less than the dashboard computer indicates. It has never changed in 105,000 miles.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

I wouldn't worry about winter drops. I don't know why the mileage heald even year around before, but it is more normal for it to drop in winter than for it to stay the same.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Vox - I have the exact same thing happen. Ethanol drops my MPG by 2-3, and over the 100 tanks that I've tracked the error between the display and the actual, the display is 3.1 MPG off, always high.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

What rims do you have? Did you change from OEM?

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Yes I did, which I now suspect as the culprit. They're spoked (well, 10 spokes). They're lighter than OEM by about 3 lbs per wheel, but I'll bet the spokes dropped the MPG. Still, even with the old wheels I could not approach 60 MPG over a full tank. For a 20 mile trip, yes.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

A question Tim.

When we read the Snowflake graf, we see a good period at higher than 50mpg then you have an average of ... 44-45mpg. Do you know why ?

Pierre

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

Tim this caught my eye:
Q:
How far is your typical drive? My own commute is almost 50 miles each way. If I had a shorter commute I wouldn't get near what I do. For example at about 12 miles I'm typically in the low-mid 50's. If I had to stop and park there that's what I'd get. In my case I still have +35 miles to allow it to creep up.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

How much do the tires weigh? Compared to OEM?

Also, what size rim did you go to? 14inch? I have a set of 14inch Civic HX allow rims (I think it's 10 spoke) and have not noticed any big difference between OEM and HX rims.

The difference that I do see has more to do with the tire... HX rims has my winter set on... and OEM set has LRR tires.

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

I am a new hybrid owner myself (2007 Honda Civic hybrid). I am trying to learn the things to work on to increase my MPG. I have only gone through a couple of tanks of gas, but I am not getting but about 33mpg. Of course, my commute is totally city driving (Atlanta) so I don't expect to get as good as some of you that drive 75-100% highway. But to be honest, I am sorely disappointed. I took the car back to the dealership and spent 3 hours there while they tested the mileage. They were able to get about 46 mpg, but then I am sure the driver took it out on the highway, turned the AC off (totally masochistic in Atlanta in May/June). I have read all the posts here and I am going to check the air pressure in the tires and see if putting more air helps. Also, since I am new to this, could someone explain a few acronyms you are using in your posts? IMPG??? FAS??? ICE???

Re: For all you HCH I drivers with 50+ MPG...
 

FAS forced auto stop... don't bother trying it.
ICE... internal combustion engine.

You will need to learn how to feather the throttle and read the instant mpg feedback screen. You need to figure out when to let off slightly on the pedal as the meter dips below the average you are trying to achieve. You cannot drive the hybrid (big mistake on manufacturers part) as any other car. You will learn how to take advantage of this meter and it will become second nature after a while.