Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

I would say to date, the majorty of ethanol has come from additional corn that was planted, and only a small amount of corn syrup has been displaced. ( the number of bushels harvested has gone up the past few years to try and keep up with ethanol )

Also, I read that the Federal Government has set a cap of 15 billion gallons to the amount of ethanol to be allowed to come from corn.
Right now, we are half-way to 15 BGY , and we used only a small % of the total corn crop. Laws can change, but right now, there are protections in place so corn used for ethanol will have only a small affect on other industries that use it. Corn prices are probably at an all time high this year, and will fall next harvest, because it turned out that more ethanol went on-line in 2007 than the farm industry expected, a problem that won't likely occur again. The rate of ethanol expansion has slowed already.

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

Putting E85 in a vehicle that was not built from the ground up to accept and hold this high alcohol content fluid is just foolish. If it's out of warranty, at least you are accepting responsibility for damaged internal parts, I wish you luck with that. It won't show up quickly but the damage is indeed being done.

Here's a little video description of what I mean:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsZ9j-Bfay4

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

Wow, a company that sells new E85 cars doesn't want you to upgrade your old car. Seems to me, if E85 really were detrimental to your current car, they wouldn't care if you went to E85 and killed it. Maybe then you would buy one of theirs? I call FUD on this one...

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

Yeah, it's my first post. I've placed an order for a FEH but haven't heard back on when it might arrive.

The video does show a biased view, but I have been a small engine mechanic since the '70s and I (along with the manufacturers) noticed a marked increase in deterioration of rubber parts i.e. hoses, gaskets & o-rings since the introduction of low % ethanol. I can't speak to the metal parts (gas tank, headers, valves) but any rubber including o-rings, will eventually turn to mush with extended exposer to ethanol.

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

David.... What a funny video! Too bad it was 98.6% FALSE!!!

I'm still laughing out loud at that video "sponsored by GM".

Do you know why the fuel filler tube needs to be changed?
The one you have has a black gas cap, and FFV have a yellow gas cap.
That's it. It does not need to be changed! It is cosmetic only.

Do you know why the fuel gauge needs to be changed?
Most come with a stenciled letters that say "Unleaded Fuel Only".
That's it. It does not need to be changed! It is cosmetic only.

Edit: After 6 tanks of E85, the needle always reads lower that actual.
Since ethanol has very low vapor pressure, as the tank becomes closer to empty, there is much less ( 75% less ) pressure inside the tank. This is fooling the pressure transducer in the tank. In my FEH it was reading 1/8 left when I had 5 gallons left. So not a "need" but a nuissence. Now that I know, I can adjust mentally.

The fuel rail on modern cars does not need to be changed.
Mine is Stainless Steel, I bet yours is too if your car is less than 10 years old.

The fuel pump on modern cars does not need to be changed.
Sure, it is working a little harder, and pumping a little faster.
That's it. It is working within manufacturer limits. It may fail sooner, but there's no proof one way or the other... and it's a pretty easy fix.

The fuel injectors do not need to be changed.
They are simply staying open for a longer period of time.
There is no extra wear or tear on them. What does it matter to a hinge on a door how long the door is held open? Isn't only the number of times the door is opened and closed important to when the hinge, or in this case injector, will wear out? In fact, my car, and others run at slower RPM with ethanol, so there are fewer cycles per minute. Heck, it may turn out ethanol makes the injectors last longer!

Terne Metal: steel sheet with a coating of terne metal, an alloy of lead and tin applied by dipping the steel in molten metal. The alloy has a dull appearance resulting from the high lead content. The composition of terne metal ranges from 50–50 mixtures of lead and tin to as low as 12 percent tin and 88 percent lead. The tin serves to wet the steel, making possible the union of lead and iron. (Britannica.com) Edit: Can also contain zinc.

Your "video" says "If your tank uses "terne metal" you are going to have a problem with E85." Now... who thinks manufacturers are using lead plated steel gas tanks in unleaded cars??? That guy in the video should be taken out back and well... use your own imagination! What an idiot. Speaking about what he knows not. Oh, for the record, ethanol does dissolve lead slowly over time... not enough to ever eat through a gas tank in your lifetime... but the lead will make it to the exhaust, which is bad for the environment... but since you probably have an "unleaded" car... no need to worry!

You do not need new valves! What bullsh!t. Do your valves have constant contact with liquid ethanol? Don't think so. Even if they did for a few seconds during a cold start, that is never never never going to harm them. Lets use some common sense folks, something lacking in the video referenced. Your valves have contact with "air" and "exhaust" when working correctly. Perhaps, fuel vapors. There should never be liquids in there, regardless if it were gas, or sulfuric acid. Ethanol is less corrosive than water, ( look in any chemistry book ) and you pull water into your engine on every stroke on a humid or rainy day.

I didn't need to buy a "fuel identifier" because my car already has one.
If you PM me, I'll tell you where it is located in the car. Most, but not all cars have one.

Now you do need a new computer to control the injectors, and this is what I purchased for $249.95.

I'm sure that guy did a similar bogus segment about how Hybrids will never pay back the purchase price in gas savings.

:D -John ( still laughing at that guy.... )

P.S. In fairness, there is a "Best Way" to do things, and a FFV from the factory is not even "Best" but it is done a little better, to make the car run a little more seemlessly with various fuel blends. I'm going to run it, since most concerns come from 100% ethanol, not E85. E85 actually, usually, has a little more than 15% gasoline, and that gasoline lubricates, and protects the car from many of the "worries".

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

This is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXajL...eature=related for the Youtube video on installing the E85 Kit. A 13 and 9 year boys are featured :omg: and shown just plugging in the male and female connector pieces.

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

I have now gone through 6 fill-ups with E85.
My conclusion?

Ethanol is not a bargain, but it is not a rip-off either.
On a cost per mile basis, it is nearly identical.
It's just too close to call.

Car runs great on the stuff, and runs at lower RPM's on E85, but takes quite a bit more of it to go the distance. My MPG drop very closely matches the btu drop.

So far I have done 5 tanks of highway, and one partial tank of city with several cold starts. The city MPG is down to about 22 MPG and the highway is between 24 and 25 MPG.

As of March 1, 2008 I have gone 1340 miles on E85.
Almost all the miles were in below freezing weather.
I have used 55.7 gallons of E85, and spent $131.73 on E85.
That same money would buy 42.5 gallons of gasoline at $3.099.
To go 1340 miles on gasoline I would need to get 31.5 MPG.
31.5 MPG is a reasonable highway number for the FEH.

Thus, the two fuels come out to a tie, on cost per mile.

-John

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

Yea but who's pocket do the profits go to?

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

And as I understand it the Ethanol is much cleaner too.

So when you add it all up you are helping both the environment and the local economy. Keeping it clean and green both in the air and in local wallets is a win win IMO.

Re: Every FEH can run on E85
 

I totally agree Allen.

While it is wallet neutral for me to use E85, there are other benefits.
Cleaner air is the primary one. Keeping dollars in the U.S. is another.
I think it is very hard to prove the amount of petroleum that goes into ethanol production, but with the price of oil so very high, you can bet your bottom (dollar) that all persons in the ethanol production chain are going to try and use as little petrol as possible. It's in their best intere$t to do so.