I don't know if Honda would ever do this, but why don't they make a more powerful version of the HCH based on their regular gas engines? The new gas engines seem really nice (I seem to remember the EX is now up to 170HP and the SI at 200HP) and the IMA would just act as a supercharger w/o the accompanying parasitic tendencies.

Also, they should allow for a switch that lets users select between economy and performance hybrid mode. I'm sure owners of the HAH love driving that rocket around town, but if they're just cruising on the highway an econ mode would help with the wallet. (And I'd love a performance mode in my HCH so I don't get shown up at the light by old ladies in Buicks.)

 

It sort of defeats the purpose of the Civic to do that. While there are versions of the Civic that are sporty and have decent power, the entire line of cars has economics in mind. People typically modify them to be otherwise.

What you've described is the very essence of the debate on how should hybrid technology be used best. Making electronic superchargers is fun, but if you look at the Accord hybrid it gets rather unremarkable gas mileage. One of the points of hybrid technology is to make cars more fuel efficient and to do better things for the environment. Using it just to make powerful cars more powerful is a waste - and many will argue a misuse - of the potential the technology has.

Now, strap in an electric motor to a 170 hp Civic that also gets 60 MPG...then you'd have something.

 

The main reason the HCH gets the good mileage that it does it because of it's tiny engine. The only reason it's not totally slow is because of the IMA boost, so to put a bigger motor in an HCH would defeat the goal of high mileage, and probably would sell very poorly because if you want power there are models that offer it without the added expense of IMA. One thing Honda could do to improve the acceleration is make a bigger electric motor, like what Toyota did with the Prius II, giving it quite a bit more zip while increasing the fuel efficiency. The new Civic is improved in this regard, but only marginally and still doesn't compare to the Prius, as reported by a test driver.

 

I'll agree with others. If you care about beating the buicks off the starting line then buy a car designed for that. For those of us who really want economical cars and have such few choices, we're glad to have the HCH as it is - there are way plenty of other cars out there for racing around. Let that granny burst ahead off the line and we'll coast up to meet her at the next light, having used half the gas. :-)

 

An Ohio Honda dealer accidentally posted the 2006 Civic info on their website earlier today. It was only up a couple hours before they realized what they'd done and yanked the info. At any rate, it showed the VP (replacement for the DX), LX, and EX as all getting the same 140 horsepower 1.8 liter engine. It was rated 30/38 for the 5-speed manual and 30/40 for the 5-speed automatic thanks to a VERY tall 5th gear in the 5-speed auto. Curb weight was listed as 2638? for the VP manual, 2700 for the LX, and 2760 or something for the EX. Automatic versions were another 40 or 50 pounds heavier. 13.2 gallon tanks for all the standard models and 12.3 gallons for the AT-PZEV HCH, which was again listed as 50/50, which we have heard rumors of elsewhere.

 

The HAH may be more up your alley if you're looking for power to go with electric. Of course you pay for that in sticker, but more importantly to me, in efficiency. It's why I bought the HCH in the first place.

Not to slam the RXers or FEHers out there because I totally respect the fact they're trying to be as conscientious as possible given the purchase, but when I wanted a hybrid it was exactly because I wanted a car that would acheive the most in that department. Not the most with x horsepower, not the most with x cubic footage, the most, period. If you're gonna go, go all out.

 

That seems to be a primary issue with why hybrids haven't been adopted more in the US. Unlike most people on this board, most non-hybrid car owners prefer power and utility. Please remember I noted that Honda (or Toyota or whoever) ought to put in a switch that allows for people to choose between performance or economy. I think such a switch would make the HCH or any other hybrid more acceptable to more people and (drive down the demand for trucks & SUVs | drive down gas consumption and prices). Of course people on this board who are given that option would stick with economy mode.

As for my own HCH... I'd be crazy to give it up with gas @ 2.70/gal.

 

There is a switch on the HCH that lets you pick between economy and performance, the gas pedal.

Seriously, I hear where you're coming from. The Hybrid designs are getting more behind the performance with the lexus, HAH, and highlander hybrid.

Most cars I've seen with the "performance/econ" switch had auto trannies and the switch set the shift points on the transmission.

Personally, I think people that buy a suburban or a H2 aren't likely to shift to a CIVIC. Those folks are compensating for something that a CIVIC won't help them with.

 

No, not a waste. If it defers or reduces the use of gasoline, then it has served its purpose. If the technology in the HAH reduces the gasoline usage over a model that would have had the cumulative power equivelent of the ICE+IMA, then it is a win.

Just because a technology is being used for a purpose that doesn't suit your needs, does not mean it is a misuse.

BTW, the "hybrid" technology has been in use for many, many years in the construction industry. Big earth movers are powered by diesel/electric hybrid engine combinations. Why? Because the diesel engines can't respond to the needs of quick, four wheel independent movement. The diesel engine runs at a constant speed, charging a bank of batteries that power four electric engines (one for each wheel), revving when necessary to supplement power. What mpg does this vehicle get? 0 mpg.

Is this a misuse of the technology?

 

Joe, it sounds like Honda is listening to your wish a little with the redesigned i-vtec engine for the 2006 Civic:

"off-the-line acceleration performance at low rpm equivalent to that of a 2.0-liter engine, and efficiency that is up to 6 percent better than the current 1.7-liter Civic engine, making it one of the world's most efficient 1.8-liter engine designs. During cruising, the new engine achieves particularly high fuel economy, on a par with that of a 1.5-liter engine".

I believe it's rated at 140 Hp. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the HCH IMA adds another 20 Hp during assist for a total of 160Hp. Add a manual transmission to that mix along with the lighter weight of the HCH (and your quicker reflexes to drop the clutch when the light goes green) and it looks like you could quite possibly smoke granny off the line, at least until her old V-8 hit passing gear...

Oh, and the new engine is also reportedly much "quieter" than the existing HCH engine...