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-   -   A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH (https://electricvehicleforums.com/forums/honda-accord-hybrid-27/how-guide-installing-new-brake-pads-hah-21154/)

bar10dah 02-27-2009 09:53 PM

A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
I actually did this job a month ago, but haven't found the time to post a thread about it until tonight.

At about 57K miles, my rear brake pads needed to be replaced. I opted for the Raybestos Ceramic Quiet Stops.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3339.jpg

And since I was replacing the rears, I went ahead and replaced the fronts with the same pads. If I were going to stay with the same pads on the rear, I wouldn't have touched the fronts.

If I've heard correctly, the OEM pads on our HAHs are already ceramic. Which I guess is evident in that I've never really had too much of brake dust buildup on the wheels. I'm under the impression that the Raybestos are of higher quality than OEM, and that's why I decided to switch. But for all I know, the OEMs are just as good. I did a price comparison in another thread on these forums (I don't remember which, but it's out there) and the prices between them are pretty close. So I guess it comes down to personal preference. For the Raybestos, I paid Checker Auto Parts $78.28 plus tax, after my 10% discount.

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:08 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Safety is paramount. Make certain you take every safety precaution. Remember that these are only my experiences and may not match your skill or car. Please use what I post as a reference only.

If you're attempting this job, I'm sure I don't have to describe how to lift the car (and use jackstands!) and remove the wheels. So we'll skip that part.

I really like how Honda has made cutouts in the rotors so you can easily measure the pad thicknesses. This is the first car I've owned that I've been able to do so.

The service limit for front brake pads is 1.6 mm (0.06 in). Only measure the pad material, not to include the pad backing plate themselves. The service manuals says standard thickness is 10.5 to 11.5 mm, so 1.6 mm is about 10%.

Here are my front pads:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3341.jpg

As you can see, at 57K, I had plenty of material left. I actually find that very strange, as I've never had a vehicle have the fronts outlast the rears, as approximately 70% of the stopping power is from the front wheels. Even with the beefier front pads/rotors, I still find it odd that they're near new in thickness and the rears are almost completely exhausted.

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:11 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
The service manual states the service limit of the rear pads to be 1.6 mm also. But their standard thickness is 8.9 to 9.1 mm.

Although a little blurry, here are my rear pads:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3342.jpg

It is hard to see, but the pad material is very low.

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:27 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
For some reason, I guess I forgot to take a picture of the thickness of the rear pads. But here are a few shots of the fronts.

This one shows about 8 mm left on the fronts:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3345.jpg



Here's the fronts side by side new and old:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3351.jpg



And the new pads measure in at approximately 17.5 mm, well above the OEM 10.5 to 11.5 mm:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3352.jpg



I once read somewhere that OEM parts, such as brake parts and tires, are manufactured smaller to reduce the unsprung weight of the car. They do this by making the brake pads/rotors and tire tread/sidewalls narrower. This gives the car an extra MPG or two on the window sticker. Anyone else heard of that, and/or can confirm it?

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:36 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
So anyways, the first thing to do is remove the brake hose mounting bolt. It's a single hex head bolt. Although a bit blurry, here's a pic of what it looks like after you take the mounting bolt out:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3343.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:41 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Then to remove the front caliper to replace the brake pads, it's just one bolt on the bottom of the rotor. Take that bolt out and the whole caliper rotates upwards and gives you quite a bit of room to pull the old pads out and put the new pads in.

The new brake pads should come with grease. At least mine did. It even gave a picture of what parts of the pads to grease to help eliminate brake squeal. If you didn't get grease in your package, get some. If you didn't get a picture, apply grease to areas on the pad backings that come into contact with something else. Such as the tabs on the ends and where the shims mount on. Speaking of shims, if the new pads didn't come with any, reuse the old shims. These Raybestos came with shims preinstalled.

After seating your pads into the correct slots, recheck to make sure!

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:44 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Since the new pads are going to be thicker, you need to push the pistons back into the calipers so that they'll fit onto the new brake pads.

First thing is to open up the brake fluid cap under the hood. When you push on the pistons, the brake fluid has to go somewhere.

I like to wrap a rag around the opening to catch any fluid that spills out:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3353.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:46 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
I spray down the rubber boot around the piston with brake cleaner to remove the grime that's built up around it. Then I use one of the old pads, and a caliper brake piston tool, and push the piston in:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3359.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:49 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
After the piston is pushed in, remove the tool and old pad. Then swing the caliper back down onto the new pads.

Next, replace the bolt you removed earlier from the bottom of the caliper. This bolt is torqued to 26 lb-ft.

Then replace the brake hose mounting bolt and torque to 2.2 lb-ft.

Replace the wheel, torquing the lug nuts to 80 lb-ft. Then do the same to the other side!

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:53 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
To do the rear brakes is very similar to the front. The differences are, the rear calipers don't pivot like the front. So after removing the brake hose mounting bolt and removing both calipers, be sure to have something under the car to rest the caliper on, so no pressure is exerted on the brake hose/fittings.

To remove the bolts that hold the rear caliper in place, you need an open end or crescent wrench. I prefer to use open end wrenches, but didn't have one in the right size. Apply it to the inner pin while being careful not to pinch the boots. Then the socket wrench goes on the outside bolt:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3344.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 10:57 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
The next difference is the piston doesn't get pushed back into the caliper. So DON'T try to use the tool you used on the front calipers!

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3354.jpg

As you can see, the piston in the rear has a cross pattern in it. These pistons actually rotate and screw back into the calipers. I hear autoparts stores rent a tool that makes this an easy job. I usually always try to use the right tool for the job. However, this time I just used some needle nosed pliers, opened them up to put the tips into the grooves, and twisted the piston back down. This works well, but go slow so the pliers don't slip out of the grooves.

Also, don't forget to hit the rubber boots around the pistons with brake cleaner to get the grime off.

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:01 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
After twisting the pistons back down, make sure one of the grooves aligns with a post on the back of the brake pad when you remount the caliper. You might have to give the piston a small little turn to make it line up. Make sure you do this.

After the caliper is back in place, replace the mounting bolts. They're torqued to 17 lb-ft.

Then replace the brake hose mounting bolt. Torque to 16 lb-ft.

Do the other side. Now the rears are done!

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:10 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
However, if you're like me, you don't like to replace the pads without turning (machining) the rotors. Since I bought my brake pads at Checker Auto Parts, they charge $5 per rotor to turn them. If you don't buy brakes from them, they charge $10 per rotor.

Turning them decreases the amount of metal left on them. When the thickness decreases, the chance of them becoming unsafe increases. The first step to make sure you can turn them is to check their thickness. The service manual calls for a maximum refinishing limit (minimum thickness to safely have them turned) of 21 mm, with a maximum difference between the right and left being 0.015 mm apart. The maximum refinishing limit for the rears are 8 mm.

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:10 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
My fronts measured in at 23 mm:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3347.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:13 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Although I forgot to get a shot of the rears, they were just over 8 mm. So this would be the last time I get them turned (I've had them turned at around 20K under warranty because the car was pulsating when using heavy brakes).

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:24 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
To remove the front rotors, you have to remove the brake caliper mounting bracket. There are two bolts to remove. After those bolts are removed, be sure to lay the caliper on something so you're not putting stress on the brake hose/fittings.

With the mount removed, look at the rotor and find two phillips head screws. Remove them. Keep in mind these are easier said than done. I actually had to take an electric impact wrench I have and use it on these screws in order to break them free. If you don't have the proper screwdriver, get one. The screwheads are larger than a standard phillips head, so using a standard screwdriver will strip these screws. If the proper screwdriver doesn't want to work, you might have to venture out to an autoparts store to see if they have a tool which the name escapes me now. But how it works is it's spring loaded and ratcheting. When you press down on it, pressure builds up. When it gets to it's release point, the mechanism unleashes and puts in a great amount of torque to turn the screwhead in a sudden "pop". Geez, I can't remember the name. If you know it, post it here.

So okay, you get the screws out. Next is to take the mounting bracket bolt (I think. It's been so long, I can't remember. If it's not this one, then try the brake hose mounting bolt. Either way, it's an 8 x 1.25 mm bolt that'll work here) and screw it into one of the threaded openings. Give it a few turns then back it out and put it into the other opening for a few turns. What you're doing is releasing the rotor from the hub assembly. After once or twice in each hole, the rotor should come free:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3348.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:25 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
This is what it looks like with the rotor removed:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3349.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:27 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
The rear is similar to the front. After the four rotors are off, take them to whereever you're getting them turned:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3350.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:28 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
When you get them back, they'll look like this!

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3355.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:30 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Replace the front rotor onto the hub assembly. Align the screw holes and replace the screws. Torque them down to 7.2 lb-ft.

Reinstallation of the rest is just as above. Torque the caliper mounting bracket bolts to 79.6 lb-ft.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3356.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:35 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Replace the rear rotor onto the hub assembly. Again, align the screw holes and replace the screws. Another 7.2 lb-ft on these.

Reinstall everything else just as described above. The rear caliper mounting bracket gets torqued down to 41 lb-ft.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/share/fi...5/DSCN3361.jpg

bar10dah 02-27-2009 11:40 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
I hope I covered every step here. If I forgot something, please post it. I'll make updates to the posts above as errors are found.

Brakes take a little more know-how than oil changes. Most people that are fairly good with their hands should be able to accomplish this job without much problem. However, keep in mind that brakes are a safety feature of your car. If you're unsure about something, seek out the advice of a professional. Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to your brakes.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I'll do my best to answer you. And, there are quite a bit more people on these threads that know a whole hell of a lot more than I do about cars. So if I can't answer you, I'm sure someone else here can.

GC617289 08-06-2009 12:29 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
It's not a good idea to push brake fluid back through the hydraulic lines and out of the reservoir. The correct procedure is to keep the reservoir capped and open the bleed valve at each caliper. This is because the dirtiest brake fluid is at the piston and you don't want it back in the hydraulic lines. So, when you push the piston(s) back into the cylinder(s), the dirty fluid escapes through the open bleed valve. Close the valve once the piston is fully reset and then open the reservoir to top-off the fluid. Alternatively, take the opportunity to do a complete fluid flush ...

Mendel Leisk 08-06-2009 01:14 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Graham,

I'd never heard about opening the bleed screw when pushing the piston back (to accomodate new pad). As you say, it avoids moving dirt upstream. OTOH, I wonder how far upstream it goes, and how dirty it is, how much of an impact this will have. Maybe the next (tri-yearly) system flush will get rid of it? I'm always leary about opening brake fluid bleedscrews, it's lead to spongy brakes for me, on some occasions.

Kieth,

Not sure if you spec'd it anywhere, but the "grease" to use is Anti-Seize Compound. In a nutshell, you apply it at every point of contact, between pad and shim and caliper, sparingly.

Also, a decent sized C-Clamp will work for pushing the piston back in, in a pinch. Works similar to the dedicated tool you show, except you put the back of the clamp on the back of the cylinder housing portion of the caliper.

I've never bothered machining rotors at pad change. It seems a hassle for a DIY job, having to take the rotors off: if the dealer does it they have a lathe that can do the job without removing rotors. FWIW, I think this is an overdone procedure, rarely warranted. You might consider getting a micrometer and dial gauge, to check the rotor's thickness, parallelism and runout. Usually if there's a problem with the rotors you will feel it.

A pulsing brake pedal if it's uneven, warped etc. A cracked rotor is a really sick sound, no mistaking it ;)

Anyways, thanks for the guide and all the pics, very good write up!

GC617289 08-06-2009 02:45 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Here's a video on YouTube that shows the correct method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEVMM...eature=channel

As the mechanic says, it's the ABS components that are at risk. And repairing those can cost $000s!

Mendel Leisk 08-06-2009 04:35 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Graham, those wide-jaw pliers he uses are a good idea, making it easy to keep constant pressure for the duration of the bleed screw being open. I've seen oil filter vice-grip pliers that look similar as those.

Ok, I'm a convert ;)

carbonita 08-08-2009 11:41 AM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
bar10dah - Really nicely done guide, thanks!

bar10dah 11-15-2010 01:58 PM

Re: A "How To" Guide For Installing New Brake Pads - HAH
 
Last year when I was in Alabama for four months, I left my car parked for six weeks, during the hot/humid/rainy months of end of July through beginning of Sep. I forgot NOT to leave my emergency brake engaged, as per the owner's manual, for a lengthly parking period.

After the six weeks, I started my car and put it in drive. The first thing I heard when my car moved forward was a booming sound, like I hit something. Then, as the car rolled along, there was a bumping sound and vibration through the car. Apparently, part of the rear brake pad corroded/adhered onto the rotor. I wasn't able to get the rotor resurfaced at the time, so I just drove it around, with that annoying sound. Slowly, the sound and vibration went away, as the rotor smoothed down again. However, a year later, I could still feel a slight pulsing of the brakes if I have to brake really hard.

I finally had the time (yeah, I've been that busy over the past year) to fix the problem this past weekend. Rather than just resurfacing the rotors, since I did that last year, and the fronts were already at their limits, I went all the way and installed new rotors all around. I bought the Napa Premium rotors and Napa Adaptive One brake pads.

Right now, I'm still breaking in the linings (200 miles), so I haven't done any quick stops to see if they feel better or worse than the Raybestos. However, I really believe any quality brake is just as good as the next quality brake. Sort of like, toothpaste. They come in all varieties. There are slight differences, some just a tad better than others. But generally if you just stick with a name brand, you're good to go.

Yeah, I know. The previous set of brakes were only about a year old. I pretty much took a job that would have cost me about $10-12 (the cost to resurface the rear rotors) and spent $230 instead to redo the whole thing. But now I know the rotors are good (a year ago, I had the fronts resurfaced down to nearly their minimum tolerances) and the pads should be just a bit better than my previous set. I read up on the Adaptive One pads from Napa and they seem to be pretty good.

As far as the labor goes, I did just as I did a year ago, but this time it went a lot quicker. This time, I've got experience on my side. And, I didn't have to stop to take pictures along the way!


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