HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

Hi,
I just bought a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid with some issues.
The car came with a spare battery, actually the whole rear bench. Previous owner got overwhelmed with the installation after he got the battery.

I'm new to Hybrids, the car shows the IMA light on, the MIL on, and the battery charging light on.
Reading the trouble codes says P1600 and P1559, looks like the NIMH battery really is bad.
The 12V battery is at 10V when the car is running.

Two questions for starters:
Will the 12V battery only charge through the IMA, there is no 12V alternator?

Before I replace the NIMH battery, is there anyway to check if its ok?
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

P1559 is generally not battery related: Motor commutation sensor A – circuit low input Wiring, motor control module (MCM) programming, MCM, motor commutation sensor, drive plate sensor.

Could be bad wiring from a critter's nibbles or a bad sensor.

1) No alternator. DC-DC converter to charge 12V w/HV. When inop, you usually see a red battery light on the dash. Rev to 2000 rpm and hold for 30 seconds. See if red light goes out, or if you get charging voltage at the 12V. When things get amuck, charging may be limited to about 1500-3500rpm with no charging outside that range.

2) Check 10X voltages to see if any of the cells have failed or if the pack is severely imbalanced:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...tml#post261753

This will tell you if there are gross problems. Good voltages do not indicate a good pack, they just indicate there are no obvious failures.

Most should be above 15V and all should be within a 0.2V range (preferably closer to a 0.1V range).

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

Thanks, so I inherited more than one problem with the motor sensor. Does not seem to impact the car running.
I'll locate the 10x voltage connector. Nice that I don't have to open the pack.
Since the replacement battery has been sitting around for some time, it might be also deep discharged.
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

So I checked the connector, the link showed the HCH II, a little bit different, but the voyages were between 7.8V and 9.5V, not so good. What now?
Since the IMA light is on for some month, they might have self discharged. Is there any way for the car to try to charge them?
Next thing I try the 2nd battery I got, but since it was pulled from a salvage car, the cells also might have discharged.
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

here is the picture of the connector
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

Sorry. I thought I grabbed the one for HCH1:


http://99mpg.com/Data/Resources/down...erconnects.jpg

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

thanks Keith, that one matches.
still the same, the voltages are between 7.8 and 9.4V.
the spare battery pack is better, between 13.8 and 15.0V. I'll probably try to swap them out.
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

I assume the car is "cranking" off the 12V starter like a regular car instead of the smooth spin up of the gas engine (no sensation of "cranking")?

Try the following:

Disconnect 12V battery for 30 seconds.
Reconnect 12V.
Start car. See if it will charge the battery. If it doesn't, try again.

The above is something that is safe to do with the IPU lid off.

AFter a few attempts, check the taps again. If you see a rise, it's worth trying it again several more times times. Eventually, you may get over 14.4V per tap, and the car will charge at 4-5A at idle until the gauge reads full. If you get to that point repeat the 12V disconnect/reconnect and idle charge to full a total of 3 times.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

I changed the HV battery from the very bad to the not so bad, cleared the engine codes (I assume clearing the OBD II codes does the same as disconnecting the 12V battery) and now the 12V battery is charging. One success, now I can at least drive the car.
The IMA light is still comes on after 1 second.
now i read the following engine codes.
P1559, P1570, P1600

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

No. OBDII code clearing doesn't do the same as disconnecting the 12V. There are certain things various computers "remember" between drives. The MCM remembers the battery state. By disconnecting the 12V, you wipe all memory. All computers reset to their defaults.

The purpose in this case is to wipe the memory of the battery state for the MCM.

P1570 is new because the discrepancy in the taps is too great.

Please conduct the steps above.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

makes sense, so I disconnected the battery for 30 seconds, started again. The codes went away, but came again.
Now it reads P0404, P1559, P1570, P1571, P1600. I cleared the codes with the scan tool and now P1559 and P1600 came back.
The battery starts charging above 1200 RPM, the voltage goes up to 13.6V on the cigarette lighter adapter. I probably need to drive it longer for the voltage to rise to 14.4V.
Than I will repeat the disconnect procedure two more times.
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

Please set the scan tool aside. If you want to clear codes, use the 12V disconnect for the time being.

P1570 can prevent 12V charging.

1. Disconnect 12V battery for 30 seconds
2. Reconnect 12V battery
3. Start car and idle-charge the IMA battery until the charge indicator stops and the SoC gauge comes to a resting position.
4. Do not touch the throttle or any other controls. Your control of the car should be limited to turning the key and pressing the brake pedal as needed.
5. Ignore whether the 12V is charging or not.
6. Repeat 1-5 above a total of 3 times.

Once the above is complete, let the car sit for 30 minutes. Measure and record the tap voltages.

While you're waiting the 30 minutes, inspect the engine compartment for signs of frayed or chewed wiring. Additionally, locate and assess the ground straps - 1 to the battery and at least 2 to the engine/transmission. These can corrode with no visible indication and cause all kinds of issues.

Steve

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

ok, I completed the battery disconnect, start the car three times.
at the end after 30 minutes the 12V battery was sitting at 12.05V.
I noticed that the first time the car idled at 1500 RPM, turning the charge light off. 2nd and 3rd time it stayed at 1000 rpm with the charge light on. I think it was idling higher the first time because the engine was cold.
the ground connection on the battery was good. I found one on the transmission, that seams to end up somewhere under the batter, and could not find yet the 2nd one. i checked the connectivity with a ohm meter, that looked ok.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

How did the IMA behave? Did it behave as I described? Is the IMA light still on?

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

the IMA light always came on again after about 2 seconds.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

Did the IMA battery charge for several minutes and then terminate?

Do you have IMA function?

You you still get 12V charging at 1500rpm+

Lastly, what codes are now present?

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

no the IMA battery did not charge. After the engine starts running the IMA light goes on immediately, no IMA function.
the 12V battery charges above 1500 PRM fine.
the codes are P1559, P1570, P1570, P1571, P1600.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

You noted a tap disparity on on the spare pack you installed. That is the likely source of the P1570, and it can also frequently inhibit normal 12V charging at idle and high rpm.

As far as the others are concerned, I don't have the manual. You can get a CD of the OEM manual on eBay for about $35. I think you're to that point.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

thanks, maybe i can recharge the individual cells with an external power supply, once they are equal, the IMA might work. I probably have to remove the battery to do that?

Do these repair manuals contain decent schematics? That would help.
Tried to work on the P1559 code too, but could not located the correct sensors yet, maybe manual will help there too.
And there is a ABS light on as well...
thanks for the help

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

You would have to remove and partially disassemble the battery at a minimum. While the tap variations are definitely not good, I would expect some limited function for at least the idle charge period. It may be the other errors that are disabling IMA before it will even try to charge the battery.

The manual is the Honda Service manual. Wiring diagrams, schematics, component locations, etc., are all there to one degree or another.

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

The saga continues.
I bought a manual of eBay, good tip by the way, lots of information for $9.90.
Learned that I don't need a OBD2 tool, just a wire. "connect SCS to ground", this gives you Engine, IMA and ABS codes.

ABS: DTC 11, front right wheel sensor bad
DTC 51, abs pump motor not spinning

IMA DTC58: charge balance
DTC 66: individual cell issue

MIP DTC 12 DTC69, probably means P1269, not very clear, maybe injector problem?
Peter

Re: HCH-I IMA and charging issues
 

The blink codes are best used in conjunction with OBD codes.

When I have had IMA issues in the past, the ABS and MIL would report multiple issues. When I corrected the IMA issue, they all went away.