2004 HCH with P1433 & P0171 Codes - What is my next step?
 

Good morning,

After several weeks of the IMA & engine lights going on and off, accompanied by erratic behavior by the IMA battery and engine, I had my problems researched by a reliable Honda dealer. They came up with codes P1433 and P0171 (fuel system too lean).

Recommendation for the IMA battery was replacement at a cost of $2800 plus tax.

Recommendation for the fuel system was to first try and adjust the valves (approximately $100), and if that fails, to replace the fuel injectors (approximately $1000).

My concern in sinking a lot of money into this car is that there are already 134000 miles on the car and I can't seem to find information about how long a fix will last. Other than a slight shudder when starting from dead stop, there are no other problems with the car. That shudder has been there since purchasing it used in 2005 or 2006. Generally, this is the most reliable car I have ever owned and I would hate to lose it, but am concerned about getting enough in return to warrant committing such a large amount of money to repairs.

What are your feelings on my situation? My general mechanic has always advised me that the car is in great shape and doesn't have any other issues. They are separate from the dealer where I had the codes pulled and researched.

I appreciate any insight you may have. I do not have the time or expertise (or tools for that matter), to perform any of the alternatives mentioned in other forums such as rebuilding or recharging the IMA battery myself. :confused:

Re: 2004 HCH with P1433 & P0171 Codes - What is my next step?
 

A grid charger/discharger from Hybrid Automotive requires very little time, tools or expertise with their detailed installation instructions. Grid charging and deep discharging can revitalize an ailing pack. You'll have less than $500 invested.

They also have IMA bypass instructions that will allow you to drive without the IMA battery; however, you will always have an IMA light and related code.

If you want to replace the battery, there are aftermarket options closer to the $2,000 mark made from NEW cells superior to the Honda cells. Check with Bumblebee Batteries or Hybrid Revolt.

Valve adjustment is likely in order if you haven't done it, but I would be surprised if it addresses the lean code.

Concerning the injectors, I would start by running fuel injector cleaner through the system with each fill-up. I don't know for certain, but the lean code could also be a function of the sensors involved in the measurement; however, when sensors fail, they typically return results way outside of expected values. Replacement of those sensors may be warranted and cost effective.

Concerning reliability of repairs, that's touchy feely stuff. You just can't know. I can tell you a replacement pack from the above vendors WILL last you 3 years - they're guaranteed. How long will injectors last? Dunno, but I would expect them to last the remaining useful life of the car as the current set has lasted 130K. RockAuto lists several remanufactured replacement injectors. Your trusted independent mechanic might have a less expensive solution.

Ask yourself this... How much do you want to pay per mile? I use a general rule of $0.10/mile. Let's use the dealer numbers... $3,900 in repairs. My gut says you'll probably get 39,000 more miles out of the car; HOWEVER, you have no idea if something ELSE might fail... but you've been in that boat since you bought it. You also need to weigh maintenance costs with replacement costs and other factors like down time or reliability failures (missing work because the car is in the shop, etc.).

Since, you have a history of reliability, it's reasonable to assume similar results if properly maintained. These platforms can reasonably obtain 250k miles. Our 2nd '06 has about 220k on it, but we haven't had it that long, and after some initial outlay (about $800 in plugs, a coil pack and upper Cat), it's running great.

Personally, I'd pass the info the dealer gave you to your mechanic and show him the installation instructions for the Hybrid Automotive grid charger. It's likely something he can do in less than an hour. He might have some suggestions or alternatives for you on the lean code. Heck... show him this rambling post... he might tell you I'm crazy. :)

Good luck,

Steve

Re: 2004 HCH with P1433 & P0171 Codes - What is my next step?
 

Is this "judder"? (Search for that and "CVT".) I would have thought a CVT with judder would have become very bad in the intervening decade, so maybe it is something else. Really fixing judder is a very expensive transmission repair, on the order of $3k. This I know from the smoking hole that repair left in my wallet.