Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Obviously, I hope no one has taken the video while driving, but does anyone know of a video or simulation where someone actually shows / narrates the pulse and glide technique?

I looked on YouTube, but saw nothing.




{edit} PS: Several threads reference a FAQ about best driving techniques, the only FAQ I'm finding on this forum is about posting / managing my account. Where ist he MPG FAQ?

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I did one a few weeks ago > http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3958

In the video, I run the engine a couple of seconds, then glide down the alley to a main road after three turns (sorry the camera is shaky and makes the ride seem....rough). The video ends half-way to the 0.4 mile glide to the first stoplight - got still pictures of the rest of the way.

I generally do this early in the morning when traffic is generally not a problem

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Chuck, For some reason your video reminds me of a pinball game--especially when you a going down the alley (chute). ;)

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

If you watch the video, on the first turn is a house that is for rent. It's been frequented by a Ford F350 at times.

I wish it was on the video posted to give it the "monster with a chain gun" around the corner in Doom II. :D

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I am sure your neighbors see you and think, "Here comes Smilin' Bob with his big gun. We had better get out of his way.";)

It would be fun to vaporize anyone that impedes our glide path.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I generally make my alley run at 6am. Peak speed is typically 22mph.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

That's not really a good example of P&G. That is an example of FAS or "Forced Auto Stop".

Maybe that's all you can do in an Insight, but that's not how most people do it... most people with a hybrid capable of EV that is....

P&G usually does NOT require turning the key off!
:shade:-John

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

gpsman1,

Could you refrain from bait please?

Pulse and glide and Forced Autostop existed decades before hybrids....please refrain from this silly HSD vs IMA hybrids feud and your differences as to how Wayne Gerdes hypermiles. I have not been personal with you in the past and would appreciate if you could return the favor.

That run on the video was running with the gas engine on about 20 or so yards, then coasting with the engine off as much as 0.4 miles - definitely pulse and glide. Emphasis is on the glide, but that's the point.

mjcmjc requested a video, then you proceded to attack it - that's why I hesitated to provide it. Not a very helpful atmosphere when someone attempts to provide info, only to have another member attack it.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

It's a fine video. Just label it what it really is please.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

John,

{trying to be dispassionate here} Perhaps you might want to define your terms - P&G, FAS, etc. If you want to describe P&G on an HSD, go for it - it would be helpful to the requestor. My definition of Pulse and Glide is not restricted to any type of vehicle, as it's been used since the 1930's or 1940's

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I know that I sometimes also mix up terminology. It's no big deal. The video was linked here to be a help for those interested. I'm not going to quarrel over it.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

"Efficient drivers do it better."

Hot_Georgia that's the one area where I'm not sure efficiency is better!


Cool video Delta Flyer- were you holding the camera or did you strap it to something?

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Thank you, Brady

Wish there was something to attach the camera. Best I could do is semi-anchor it against a sun shade - not much of an anchor but better than nothing.

Normal driving would result in about 50mpg over those 0.4 miles, but doing it this way it's 100-200mpg or even better.

Obviously, I have to be very alert in the part with three turns.

One thing to note - modern cars take frequent restarting much better than in the past. In fact, a Canadian govt. site recommends against idling more than 10 seconds at intersections (pollution, gunk in engine).

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I agree with you ... I have only had my Prius for 3 weeks, but I was doing P&G with my GTI for 5 years, and my Corolla for 6 years before that ... and I never heard of the term "pulse and glide" until a few weeks ago.:lightbulb

Thanks for the vid.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

sorry, but you actually you need a hybrid synergy drive to do the REAL pulse and glide, because the gas engine is OFF during the glide.
:P

Here is a link to learn more:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1224

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Hopefully you are fully awake now - the engine was clearly off for over 90% of the video.

Revisit the link to the video and note that it's clear in the text the car engine is off, except for the first 2-3 seconds. Also if you look at the video (I'm working on a clearer video...), the tach on the left of the dash is lit up those 2-3 seconds, then zero the remainder - the oil & battery lights are on after that "pulse" (i.e. the engine is not running), the instant mpg indicator in the lower center of the dash is pegged at 150mpg after the "pulse".

This technique has been used for decades - a quick burst of the engine to get 20-30mpg, then coast in neutral for a considerable distance. If that is not pulse and glide - what is? It was used during the gas rationing in World War II, a fuel economy contest in the 1950's (sponsored by Mobil, but not the cross-country event), depicted in a 1970's Reader's Digest article on how to make it to a gas station in a pinch. Some of these fuel economy techniques and variants have been rediscovered in recent years.

I won't deny it's different or easier in a Prius or Camry...

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

When you say "coast in neutral" that implies the engine is idling.
Maybe you meant completely off or maybe neutral?

Perhaps this technique is quite old and the hybrid is not required,
however, I feel you need a hybrid to utilize PAG properly-
or in the very least to keep it from being a major pain in the *** if not safety issue.

Therefore, with due respect I maintain it is silly to talk about it as a practical technique without a hybrid!!

I certainly would not try it on HWY 17... :omg:

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Again, reading the text and watching the video it's obvious the car is coasting with the engine off - nothing subtle about that.

I know quite a few that do what I did in the video in both hybrids and non-hybrids - they are comfortable with it.

Your assertion that a driving techinque that dates to World War II is now illegimate because HSD hybrid drivers discovered it 60+ years later is not very rational.

I noticed that when looking up for your past posts, the first 24 don't show up. If they resememble the posts on this thread, that's easly to understand.

Maybe you should consider describing P&G in a Camry instead.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I don't understand what you are saying about my posts?
Nor does it matter to me.

It is a bit confusing with you coming to a web site specifically meant to discuss hybrid vehicles, and try to recommend pulse and glide for non-hybrid vehicles, which is downright impractical, and then justify it because they did it 60 years ago. Oh but I am the irrational one?

P&G in a Camry is exactly like the Prius- but since the car is heavier, you get MPG in the 40s not 90s... all you do is get the gas engine to turn off, without having the electric regen slow the car down, all by lightly pressing the pedal just right. This is what pulse and glide means TODAY, sorry! and sorry if I insulted you, I just think this whole thing is silly! Turning the car on and off with the key is NOT safe for 98% of drivers, nor is the engine designed to withstand that abuse; that is still my opinion. With hybrids, even grandmas can try to pulse and glide.

... and still looking for videos of hybrid driving techniques!

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Yes you are:

• You deny the engine is off in the video when it's plain it's coasting in neutral - engine off.
• While I seldom drive with one hand, yet could do the video with the camera in one hand without a problem - sound impractical?
• You conviently ignore the fact people in hybrids and non-hybrids alike do what was done in the video. If you truly wanted to be helpful, do (or ask for) a video showing how it's done in the Camry. I for one would be interested to study it - seriously.

Things were going nicely before you baited this morning - could you make some constructive posts for a change?


I'm sorry you are compelled to pick a fight - I've get better things to do.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Ok, well, sorry if that first post angered you, but if we are here to discuss viable low mpg driving techniques, that is all I was attempting, and poorly.

I can't make a useful video of it without putting a simultaneous camera by my feet. Maybe with someone's help and gear one day I will.

I do not deny the engine is off in the video- I did get that wrong in my first post. Sorry for being hasty in that regard. I'm all for civility and correcting where I am wrong.

In regards to pulling p&G off in a non-hybrid, I maintain that most people can't do it without sacrificing safety. (and those types of engines are not designed for that) The benefits of P&G are maximized with an automatic hybrid transmission- I think we may even agree there.

Don't even get me started on warp stealth!:D

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Enough fighting, guys. You're here to discuss a hobby and an interest. No need to get hostile.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

You are driving a stick shift with a camera in one hand? With all respect, this just does not seem safe- does the enzyte somehow help? :embarass:

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Technicaly pulse and glide has nothing to do with engine on or off. It is just more efficient with the engine off.

Pulse and glide was taught in drivers ed as a way to conserve fuel if you were running out. It is simply accelerating to a speed and then coasting a good distance and then back up to speed and coasting again. It has nothing to do with engine on or off. Since the Prius' HSD will allow you to go into a no energy mode it is one of the best vehicles to perform this technique and prius owners have come to adopt the technique as their own, but in reality pulse and glide is more broad then the use of it in a prius.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

BTW, weren't you just warned about keeping it civil?

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

For crying out loud, I was just making a joke- based on the fact of Delta's picture and 'honda enzyte' If someone else puts it out there, I may jest. I didnt come here to be reminded of enzyte either, but thats what happened. lol.

I have already acknowledged pulse and glide was started long ago. However, now that we have hybrid technology available, we are able to do it ease and safety, making the beginnings seem pretty outdated to my, just my opinion.

again I apologize to any I have offended. I am NOT going to respond from here, for the good of the planet.:zip:

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Thanks for the straightforward explanation. I do have some questions though for my HCH2:
1. I dont like the idea of shutting down the ignition with key during the glide - are there still significant FE benefits if I switch from D to N during the glide (keeping ICE "running")? In N, Seems like the rpms drop to <1k and FE does rise versus keeping it in D at least.
2. Is keeping the rpms below 2k or 2.5k still a good rule of thumb for the pulse - or should I try to max out EV assist at higher RPMs?
3. Are there better FE benefits using this in slower city driving (stop lights/signs) versus using this on faster freeway speeds?
4. Is this better FE (for an HCH) than just keeping it in cruise control at say 35mph versus P&G from 45-->25mph?

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Spartybrutus:
Unlike what some (Toyota hybrid only) folks here have aluded to, the Prius (or any other HSD vehicle) is not the only hybrid architecture that can do an "optimized and safe" Pulse and Glide.

Your HCH-2 will not only allow for P&G natively, but it will also extend the glide at almost any speed above 20MPH with the use of EV propulsion only. Used wisely you can get some pretty phenomenal MPGs.
On the HCH-2, you do not have to turn off the ignition to do a great glide. Just lightly release the gas until you get 1-2 green regen bars then gently apply gas to enter the mode. if you press a hair more you enter the EV mode during the glide. During this mode the gas engine consumes zero gas and only contributes a barely measurable amount of resistance/friction.

I use P&G in the city and on some short highway runs when circumstances permit. When I accellerate during the pulse I try to keep the assist as low as possible (preferable less than 3 bars). In the winter when the EV does not work (Prius & HCH-2) P&G is the only way I know to keep the MPGs as high as possible.

DeltaFlyer:
Awesome video by the way. I don't know if I would have had the guts to do what you did... but regardless, thank you for the great demonstration.


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

MSantos,

Again, thanks for the clarifications.

One more question - for the HCH2 you are stating that the glide involves keeping the trans in Drive and just just getting 2 regenbars, wait for FE to peg hi, then add throttle until some assist bar(s) appear (with FE still pegged hi)? You are NOT saying to put the HCH2 trans in to Neutral during the glide, right?

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Correct.

In fact, when you get really good at it you don't need to see any regen bars at all. When the regen bars appears it means you "are slowing down faster". The less regen bars the better... and yes, no need to put it in Neutral; just keep it in Drive watch the road ahead and do the gas pedal thing.
To modulate the gas pedal even better, some HCH-2 owners take off their shoes and drive barefoot (just like some high MPG Prius owners do). That's drive-by-wire throtlle for you. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

MSantos,

Thanks for the tips.

One thing that is bugging me is whether or not P&G gives higher FE than just using cruise control. I dont see why it would...

Long portions of my daily commute is 55mph or 65mph freeways with few hills. I tend to just stick it on cruise at the speed limit and its returning good FE. I might consider P&G if it would yield another 5-10+mpg, but it seems like a hassle versus CC if its not a big FE boost.

Happy problems - trying to see if P&G versus cruise control gives you 65mpg versus "only" 55mpg :D

Carl

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

My answer is to experiment and compare the results.

If you have a flat strech of highway you can cruise, P&G may not benefit much.

Based on what spartybrutus's description, I'm wondering if I'd drive his commute with little P&G, but also without cruise control, watching the FE readout?

If you look at the instant mpg, it's easier to find hills and see the FE hit - positive or negative.

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

I totally agree with Delta. The best is to experiment, record and compare the results. This way, you'll define a baseline for what you can achieve and then stick to the method that suits you best.

I would also add:

Since you have a few hills, I would suggest you limit the use of cruise control to the flat segments of the road. Cruise control can become very agressive when climbing small hills and that hits your FE. Likewise on the other side of the hill, the cruise control will engage regen to keep the speed which is not the most optimal thing to happen especially if you already have a good state of charge. Regen is nice when you got no other choice; but in most other scenarios it amounts to an overall loss in FE.

Instead, your foot should to the work of keeping a reasonable target FE on the display then let the speed bleed off a little when going uphill. This is typically called driving with load (DWL). When on the other side, try to avoid the regen for as long as it is possible and safe. In fact, when descending small hills you can use a little EV especially if you see another small hill ahead. This way it is possible to gain enough speed in the descent that you'll need to climb the next hill; all the while using the least amount of gas in the process. It is alot of fun. ;)


Cheers;

MSantos

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Thanks Guys - I will experiment not using CC and try to use P&G instead. P&G does seem pretty effective around the neighborhood (30-45mph).

Yep - I am too lazy to keep my right foot "just so" while monitoring the FE and EV/regen at the same time. I tend to use my right thumb on the CC up/down switch:

- On flats, I just leave it at speed limit (say 55).

- As I start up a hill, I watch the Assist climb ot 3-4 bars/tach start to climb to 2k rpms/FE drop to 50mpg - at which time I CC down to 54mph. I will repeat this 2-3 times depending on the size of the hill. I dont like to bleed off too much speed to PO the drivers around me.

- After the hill crest, as FE climbs towards 75mpg+, I will up the CC 2-3mph (back towards 55mph).

Thanks to you Guys - I am 80 miles from my first 600mile ~56mpg tank.

Carl

Re: Video or Simulation of Pulse & Glide
 

Hello everyone. Nice to meet you all.


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