TC and F/awd vehicles.
#42
06-04-2009, 02:35 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
#43
06-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
TC uses ABS up to 62mph after that only engine torque control is used or so I've read.
#44
06-04-2009, 04:53 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
I assume that the FE manual is like the FEH manual in many ways. It clearly states if your stuck in the snow you may need to disable TC to spin your way out.
#45
06-04-2009, 05:48 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
A little courtesy goes a long way... try it.
I have a Mustang Cobra, Big engine TC, etc....
I got stuck against the curb one time on a gentle slope street covered with sheet ice, one wheel would grab but the other one spun and spun and spun. Took me 10 minutes to get out.
As I watched the engine and TC and wondered why the locking Differential wouldn't get me out I finally realized that the TC was reducing the engine and clamping the spinning wheel brakes.
When I added 2 & 2 and pushed the TC off switch I was out in a heartbeat because the wheel with traction could now get a purchase.
You could have asked the same question, as I see it it's fair enough to ask how one "knows" something, but the snottiness was uncalled for.
Your Mustang ABS may have been 3 channel in which case both rear wheels would be braked even if only one lost traction.
#46
06-04-2009, 07:37 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
#47
06-04-2009, 08:07 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Posts: 1,678
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think "locking" rear diff'ls have been in common use in road going passenger vehicles for amost 40 years now. LSD, Limited Slip Diff'l's, yes, and torque sensing probably also.
Like nowadays we have a myriad of AWD designs out there in the marketplace we now have a myriad of rear diff'l design that have different methods of biasing engine torque to the wheel with traction.
I'm fairly certain that the most common LSD in use today would be the invisible one, TC firmware.
But to throw a bone in your direction what you state is much the problem with the VC in my '01 F/awd RX300. TC activates so quickly there is no opportunity for the VC to "stiffen" and thereby partially "lock" the center diff'l. Probably why the VC was dropped entirely for the later models.
#48
06-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
wptski,
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
You show your ignorance of things mechanical & how they interact with software systems...
The thing that kicks in a locking differential is a difference in the speed of one wheel versus the other greater than a set amount. On the other hand TC senses when a wheel is spinning above vehicle speed and applies the brake and or cuts the throttle back.
Whether one wheel is at zero and the other is at, say 50, or one wheel is at 50 and the other is at 100 makes little difference to a locking axle, it locks up when the difference in wheel speeds go to high. But if the TC senses the vehicle speed versus the high wheel & kicks in then the Locking axle won't lock.
You rarely ever need a locking axle to perform above "low" speed so the TC & the locking axle won't appear to interact in this realm. But you do need the locking feature to work when at "low" speed. As I see it zero qualifies as "low." If I have turned off the TC feature I re-engage it at about 10 mph. Purely a subjective number.
Give me a break, go try again. Snottiness does not become you.
As WWEST has pointed out since your gibberish post, there's no such thing as locking differential, locker or LSD that can be used with TC or AWD.
Actually wheel speed between all four must be within 1.2mph of eachother.
I guess you could use the term 0mph if you want but I've never heard of that before.
Last edited by wptski; 06-04-2009 at 09:06 PM.
#49
06-04-2009, 09:05 PM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
Bill,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think "locking" rear diff'ls have been in common use in road going passenger vehicles for amost 40 years now. LSD, Limited Slip Diff'l's, yes, and torque sensing probably also.
Like nowadays we have a myriad of AWD designs out there in the marketplace we now have a myriad of rear diff'l design that have different methods of biasing engine torque to the wheel with traction.
I'm fairly certain that the most common LSD in use today would be the invisible one, TC firmware.
But to throw a bone in your direction what you state is much the problem with the VC in my '01 F/awd RX300. TC activates so quickly there is no opportunity for the VC to "stiffen" and thereby partially "lock" the center diff'l. Probably why the VC was dropped entirely for the later models.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think "locking" rear diff'ls have been in common use in road going passenger vehicles for amost 40 years now. LSD, Limited Slip Diff'l's, yes, and torque sensing probably also.
Like nowadays we have a myriad of AWD designs out there in the marketplace we now have a myriad of rear diff'l design that have different methods of biasing engine torque to the wheel with traction.
I'm fairly certain that the most common LSD in use today would be the invisible one, TC firmware.
But to throw a bone in your direction what you state is much the problem with the VC in my '01 F/awd RX300. TC activates so quickly there is no opportunity for the VC to "stiffen" and thereby partially "lock" the center diff'l. Probably why the VC was dropped entirely for the later models.
What's VC?
#50
06-05-2009, 06:18 AM
Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.
Locking, positraction, limited slip...
Different methods of getting to the same effect. I consider them to be functional equivalents and you are being disingenuous in what you are trying to say.
What you don't seem to get is that the two work in opposition to each other and offsetting the unintended effects of one when at low speed makes a difference.
I'll go to the shop manuals and look up the strict, technical definition of the axles in my 92 Suburban, 01 Mustang , & 06 Escape Hybrid.
BTW, if you go back 40 years (1969!) any kind of locking, limited slip or locking differentials were not in common use. The standard open differential was common through about the 80s.
I've learned over the years that when people pontificate, as you did with your "correct me if I'm wrong" lead in, they are frequently wrong.
Different methods of getting to the same effect. I consider them to be functional equivalents and you are being disingenuous in what you are trying to say.
What you don't seem to get is that the two work in opposition to each other and offsetting the unintended effects of one when at low speed makes a difference.
I'll go to the shop manuals and look up the strict, technical definition of the axles in my 92 Suburban, 01 Mustang , & 06 Escape Hybrid.
BTW, if you go back 40 years (1969!) any kind of locking, limited slip or locking differentials were not in common use. The standard open differential was common through about the 80s.
I've learned over the years that when people pontificate, as you did with your "correct me if I'm wrong" lead in, they are frequently wrong.
