Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

I think the biggest flaw of the Escape/Mariner Hybrids has got to be the fact that the ICE must start and run EVERY time you turn on the vehicles. I simply don't understand the purpose of this "feature". I understand the intent behind it....bringing the catalytic converter up to temp in order to reduce emissions, but to me it seems like this is counterproductive for many drivers. For me, most of my trips are very short stop and go runs....often with several stops. Since most of my driving is in EV mode, I am burning fuel to warm up a CAT which I am barely going to use, and on top of that, since the CAT is cold anyway, I am also poluting more! Then, even though the CAT is probably still up to temp after I run into the dry cleaners....the ICE still has to start up and waste fuel and polute. I don't get it. Why not only warm up the CAT when you need it? What about an electric heater coil of some kind to pre-heat the CAT?

I assume the mystical "EV only mode" of the foreign Prius allows those drivers to avoid this weakness in essence. I just wish we would have that option here where it makes sense. While we are at it, why not let us plug in our hybrids? I'm not talking about an extended battery kit that costs $8k....just let me plug in my hybrid when I get home so that when I pull out the next morning I have a full charge? I mean, I know I'm not the only one who pulls into their garage with only a sliver of green left on their battery display....

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

I think the ICE is also needed initially to cool the hybrid battery. There is an AC unit in the left rear quarter that is piped to the ICE.

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

Another (And very big) reason is that people are idiots.

No, I mean that. The original prototype FEHs did not have that option, and people were unsure if they started their car or not when the system was warm. Hence, the production version has that ICE on feature to let people know they did in fact start their car.

Once your car is warmed, you shouldn't have ICE on for more than 30 seconds unless you're demanding power from it.

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

One of the other reasons cited is emissions. The catalytic converter must come up to temp, and stay there in order to qualify for SULEV II status. Thats another reason the ICE will start up sometimes when you are sitting in traffic (even if its cold outside). In fact I find that often going through a car wash will kick on I assume once the converter gets wet and cold.

Of course that doesn't answer why one couldn't just make sure that the first time the ICE NEEDED to come on, it couldn't be FORCED to stay on long enough for the converter to come to temp. Theres no reason why the converter needs to be at temp (or getting there) the moment you turn the key.

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

Hi,
I would speculate that they don't worry about it much because the ICE is considered an integral part of the propulsion system. In normal driving conditions, you need the ICE to get around anyway. Unless you are in stop and go traffic, I find it hard to stay in EV starting from a stop because the motor is too weak.

rcomeau

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

If that is the case I'd like to see an option for non-idiots that disabled ICE start-up until necessary.

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

Remember that "when the ICE is needed" it will require a load on it, most likely both for traction as well as charging the HV battery.

When it first starts up, the ICE runs with almost no load, and you drive on battery power. I think this is a key factor in engine longevity, especially with an ICE that is required to start and stop so often. If the ICE is put under heavy load from a cold dry start, it's not too good for it.

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

If that were possible, lawyers would be out of work. Everything is engineered and legislated with idiots in mind. It seems many of us are still animals, after all this time "evolving".

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

I guess I'm an idiot then. :embarass: Seriously, I test drove an FEH and a Prius. I did not like the "feel" of the Prius with respect to the ICE not starting (at least briefly) with the key. If your goal is to make a hybrid that drives like a normal Escape...then I think ICE startup is advised.

IMHO, I prefer the Ford system of starting the ICE with the key(briefly). If my FEH is warm, it goes off in about 20-30secs anyway. :P

Nate

Re: Required ICE start-up...pointless waste?
 

I happen to prefer the system as-is, also. One of my biggest kudos about the vehicle, from those who drive with me or have driven it (just my hubby) themselves, is "how much it is like a 'normal vehicle'". It's perfectly engineered so one does not HAVE TO (talking purely about operation, not optimizing fuel economy) know that it's a hybrid and doing all sorts of things under the hood and in its brain(s) at all times to get it to go from Point A to Point B and back again.

People that want plug-in capability and 100mpg and other options will have their choices in time, but for now that's just not where the market's at. Give it time. In the meantime, I'm tickled pink with my FEH and wouldn't change a thing (except for the windshield crack I picked up 4 days post-purchase thanks to a rock kicked up from another vehicle. :( It's repaired, but still visible.)