Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

I bought my '08 FEH in Wisconsin (there were none in Minnesota) and it came with an engine block heater. I believe Ford figured out that they are necessary for reduction of emissions in those areas of the country where one needs to warm up te car before driving for fear of snapping something (either a car part or human part) off!

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

My 06 has them also.

~John

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

4. Whats the worst mileages you guys have gotten due to cold weather?

My worst mileage this past winter was 24 MPG which included an aborted trip to northern Michigan at 0F with a 40 MPH crosswind. The trip was aborted after an accident shut down the expressway. While traveling 3 miles in 45 minutes, the car would idle for about 5 minutes, then the ICE would shut off and for a minute or two we would sit or inch along in hybrid mode until the ICE came back on. Now with the weather in the 70s-90, I have been averaging in the low 30s while mostly driving at 70 MPH on expressways. Looking at my data an others on the this an other web sites, it looks like there is about a 1 MPG hit for every 10 degree F drop in outside air temperature. Your actual mileage will depend upon the type of driving you do. If your winter winter driving is slower than summer driving because the conditions are worse, your mileage hit may be only about 0.5 MPG per 10 degrees drop in temperature.

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

I got around 22 mpg on a tank in Upstate NY during a spell where the weather never went much above about 2º the whole time.

During that spell, I had drives to work (28 miles each way) where the gas engine never shut off at all (it generally shuts down a bunch of times on that trip), or if it did manage to shut off it popped right back on 20 seconds later.

Part of the problem with the terrible mileage was that I got so disgusted at the drastic drop that I basically gave up driving it "like a Hybrid" for a while. I figured if the mileage was going to suck anyway, I might as well plant my foot down & have some fun with the thing at times.........(these things can be pretty snappy when you want them to be) :embarass:

There also is the fact that 22 mpg is still not the end of the world to me, my last truck before my Hybrid days (this is my 2nd FEH) averaged around 16 mpg & seemed like it was ALWAYS in need of a gas fillup.....

To me, one of the biggest advantages of better mpg isn't so much the money savings (although that is certainly nice), but simply the huge convenience of not having to stop for gas all the time. My old truck needed gas at least two & a lot of times three times a week, & in my busy schedule there are never really convenient times to stop & refuel.

I take all back roads to work & do not pass any gas stations, so I had to make a detour every single time I needed to fill up. Now, I fill so infrequently I literally forget when/where the last time I filled up occured...

~John

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

I don't know the actual temps that the FEH was tested at, but Ford did do testing in northern Alaska or northen Canada and found that it works much better than a normal car.

My assumption is that they probably did test with engine block heaters (I have no idea if they did testing with the assumption that the engine block heater had failed to work), but I didn't ask the engineer when I inquired about extreme cold.
Nope - the good news is that isn't really a problem. The battery is the least of your worries. In fact you'll find that the hybrid WILL crank the car to start even in temps well below when other traditional cars would have no hope of starting.

Back on '05, Ford held a "Ford Hybrid Escape Fuel Economy Experience" (they invited owners and the press to come to their headquarters to learn more about the cars they owned, talk to engineers and ask any questions.) I asked my engineer plenty about what would happen in bitterly cold because I was worried that a car relying on electricity so much would have a big handicap in bitter cold temps.

Turns out a normal car needs about 15 RPMs to get the engine to start. If it's too cold outside, the battery may well not be able to spin the starter fast enough to cause combustion.

The FEH, however, has a starter desgined to crank the engine when the car is moving at some speed -- so it can actually crank the engine at 1500 RPMs when starting. (100 times faster than the engine needs to insure combustion). Even if the battery can only muster enough juice to make the starter crank at a mere 1% of it's normal speed the car will still start!

The engineer that I got to spend some time with was one of the guys who did the cold weather testing. He told me that in bitterly cold temps "I might have to settle for only 700-800 RPMs of cranking power". =)

As for heating the battery compartment, the batteries have their own temperature control. The computer can push heat back there or air-condition the battery array (in hot climates). You don't actually rely on the mere ambient air temperature that happens to wander back that way.

As for cold weather economy, I live in Michigan and the worst fuel economy I ever got was 22mpg. Those were temps of about 0 degrees F in the mornings (for weeks on end) that drove the tank economy down that low. You would surely do worse in Alaska, but keep in mind that Atkinson cycle engine will _always_ get better that the the a traditional engine -- even when running on combustion engine alone and getting no help from the DC electric motor.

In freezing temps the computer will gradually warm up the batteries. At first you'll notice no charging is occuring when you use the brakes, after a few minutes you'll be getting a slight charge when you use them, and once the car is really warmed up (15-20 minutes later) it'll use them as normally as it would in the summer.

I think the larger concern about bitter cold is since the computer will do very little charging until the batteries begin to warm, if you drive on very short trips (say you only drive a few miles and this takes you less than 5 minutes) that the car wont run long enough to get to recharge the battery array. If after starting in the cold it gets to drive far enough to warm up then this wont be a problem.

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

The FEH is not a "normal car" so you cannot compare the two in most areas. How the car starts is VERY different.

There is just one way to start the car.
The 12v battery "turns on" the 330v battery when you turn the key.
The 12v battery never cranks the engine.

When the 330v circuit is completed, the 330v battery energizes the smaller 40kw motor that in turn, spins the engine to 1000 RPM or slightly more.
The engine does not get fuel or spark until it is moving over 1000 RPM.
Then the engine fires away, and off you are on your way.

The battery getting cold and "only spinning the engine 800 RPM" is a false assumption. The engine must always be moving at over 1000 RPM to get spark. ( Notice idle is never less than 1000 RPM either. ) So starting the car at 800 RPM is never, ever, a possibility.

HOWEVER... the assumption that the battery pack is powerful enough by several times over, to start in the majority of cold climates is true. Since the battery and 40kw motor have the ability to spin the engine at 5000 RPM if necessary, there is about 5 times the minimum power required to start the car. Not quite 100x as implied below, but the right idea was stated.

There are fans, and even A/C cooling for the HV battery pack.
There is NO HEATER system for the battery pack.
I once thought there was one myself, then I actually took the battery apart and looked, and there is not any way to artificially heat the battery.
However, using the battery creates internal heat, and charging the battery creates internal heat, and that's why performance increases with a few minutes of use. Cabin heat ( or direct sun ) may help a little actually. But just using it is the quickest way.

Hope that helps!
-John

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

There are fans, and even A/C cooling for the HV battery pack.
There is NO HEATER system for the battery pack.
I once thought there was one myself, then I actually took the battery apart and looked, and there is not any way to artificially heat the battery.

If there is no HV battery heater, what does the jump start button do?

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

The button steps up 12v ( and a large number of amps ) to 330v ( and a low number of amps ) to give a small charge to the 330v battery.

This will only help those "borderline" cases, and will not fix a "dead" battery.

Like I said, the act of charging also creates internal heat.
Your cell phone probably gets warm when charging. Yes? Mine does.
-John

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

To go a little off topic for a minute, is this why it does not sound like a normal car on startup? You know the usual starter cranking noise, it just seems to go from off to run with little other noises.

Re: Buying '06 used advice, for extreme cold.
 

Yes!